Cheekiest request for discount.

Discuss Picture Framing topics.

PLEASE USE THE HELP SECTION
WHEN SEEKING OR OFFERING HELP!
User avatar
GeoSpectrum
Posts: 2151
Joined: Fri 01 Oct, 2010 11:49 am
Location: Lincolnshire
Organisation: Ashcraft Framing
Interests: Family, x-country skiing, wine, art, Jazz
Location: Gainsborough, Lincolnshire
Contact:

Cheekiest request for discount.

Post by GeoSpectrum »

I had a email request for a quote the other day, 4 simple but by no means small, inlay frames, and quoted £65 each. The lady came back to me today and asked if she were to order 7 could she have them for £35 each. 'No, sorry.' was my reply. If she had been a bit more realistic I might have bothered with a bit of negotiation but I thought asking for that depth of discount was a bit cheeky, if not downright rude.

Anyone else with similar stories?
Alan Huntley
Ashcraft Framing
Bespoke Easels and Self-assembly tray frames
http://www.ashcraftframing.co.uk
Bobble
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed 29 Mar, 2017 5:51 pm
Location: Surrey
Organisation: Frameworks
Interests: Picture framing.

Re: Cheekiest request for discount.

Post by Bobble »

Sounds like Anita Manning from Antiques Roadtrip. Was there a cameraman in the corner? Rule #1, offer a third of the listed price! Still, better TV than grunting tennis. :sun:
User avatar
Keith Hewitt
Posts: 1276
Joined: Mon 28 Jun, 2004 9:49 am
Location: BOLLINGTON - Macclesfield England
Organisation: www.keithhewitt.co.uk
Interests: Badminton, golf, gym, and exploring new places.
Contact:

Re: Cheekiest request for discount.

Post by Keith Hewitt »

Never cease to be amazed at what Joe Public sometimes asks for.

Do they ask their dentist / plumber / electrician / car mechanic etc for half price ? :head:

I doubt it, so why ask a framer who is using their skill+ knowledge to produce a unique product.
Keith Hewitt
I have visited distributors and framers in 90 countries - no two are the same.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XtrrWooYdg
User avatar
StevenG
Posts: 1147
Joined: Thu 31 Jan, 2013 8:01 am
Location: Tyrone, N.Ireland
Organisation: Featurepiece Frames
Interests: Movies, always trying to get things better, Wasting money on things I don't need, reading stuff on here, eating sandwiches & being thankful for the small things
Contact:

Re: Cheekiest request for discount.

Post by StevenG »

I get this on a weekly basis - the most recent was about football shirts.........


"how much to get a football shirt framed?"

"£120"

"how much for 3"

"£360"

"I'll give you £300"


"No, I can't do that sorry - £60 is just too much to knock off"


"OK,what about........"


Anyway this went for a bit (via FB Messenger) until we agreed on £360. Then when he brought them in he had two photos to be included with each shirt! Then I had to start talking about extra costs...... It's not easy :head: :lol:

Asking for discount is fair enough, and locally it's fairly common and sometimes expected, but the amounts they expect proves that they have no idea about the work involved with these things.
Not your average framer
Posts: 11013
Joined: Sat 25 Mar, 2006 8:40 pm
Location: Devon, U.K.
Organisation: The Dartmoor Gallery
Interests: Lost causes, saving and restoring old things, learning something every day
Location: Glorious Devon

Re: Cheekiest request for discount.

Post by Not your average framer »

I'm not surprised. These people are just time wasters, even if you haggle with them for a better price, you won't get the order. It's either just a game they like to play, or they still think that they get it cheaper somewhere else.

We have now got an Ikea in Exeter, I can send these jokers there and cut them a mount to suit the frame they have bought.

Then I can waste their time instead. :twisted:
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
Justintime
Posts: 1868
Joined: Sat 26 Sep, 2015 8:48 am
Location: West Wales
Organisation: George The Framer LLP
Interests: Gardening, design, electronic music, good food and beverages.
Contact:

Re: Cheekiest request for discount.

Post by Justintime »

A few artists have tried to push me on price and I've offered to sell them the frames filled and sanded ready to hand paint and finish. No one has taken me up on it yet. I made a point of telling the last one that the job involved 10 hours of painting..
Justin George GCF(APF)
Insta: georgetheframer
User avatar
Steve N
Posts: 2992
Joined: Sat 21 Jul, 2007 2:32 pm
Location: Somewhere Staple Hill Bristol
Organisation: Frontier Picture Frames ltd
Interests: Walking our retired Greyhound,art, falling asleep on sofa in front of the telly
Location: Now in Bristol
Contact:

Re: Cheekiest request for discount.

Post by Steve N »

About a month ago, one caught me on a bad day, 3 different pictures, 3 different frames,

"How about a discount?

"Sorry, they are all different, so can't save any time, so no not in the case"

"Are you sure?"

"Well I ring up EDF Energy, and ask them if they will give me a discount on my electric when I'm working on your frames, if they do I'll pass it along to you"

I have his pictures, just haven't got round to framing them yet,

I once asked my dentist for a discount when he quoted me for some treatment, he asked what I meant, so I told him "that a lot of my customers ask for discount, so I have started to ask, so how about it?"

"I give you 10% "

He did as well, but I noticed that he had put the price up :shock: :lol:

Going back to the OP, she want more frames (7) for less than the original number(4) in total cost £245 for 7 rather £260 for 4 :mooning:
Steve CEO GCF (020)
Believed in Time Travel since 2035

Proud to sell Ready Made Frames
http://www.frontierpictureframes.com
http://www.designerpicturemounts.com/
Ed209
Posts: 437
Joined: Sun 05 Mar, 2017 8:22 pm
Location: Birchington-on-Sea, Kent
Organisation: Birchington Framing Centre
Interests: Guitar, woodwork, cycling Singing
Contact:

Re: Cheekiest request for discount.

Post by Ed209 »

Not discounts, but was wondering if I should have a fast track price for people that want to jump the queue and have there framing done quickly, Had a few this week “relatives coming down”, “Got exhibition in a gallery this weekend”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
User avatar
Steve N
Posts: 2992
Joined: Sat 21 Jul, 2007 2:32 pm
Location: Somewhere Staple Hill Bristol
Organisation: Frontier Picture Frames ltd
Interests: Walking our retired Greyhound,art, falling asleep on sofa in front of the telly
Location: Now in Bristol
Contact:

Re: Cheekiest request for discount.

Post by Steve N »

ed209 wrote
Not discounts, but was wondering if I should have a fast track price for people that want to jump the queue and have there framing done quickly, Had a few this week “relatives coming down”, “Got exhibition in a gallery this weekend”


Yeah why not, as long as they tell you before you starting working out your quote, then just add on a PITA amount, no need to tell them you are adding on extra amount, but if they don't tell you until after you have quoted, then it could look bad.
But if you have a notice up saying whet your normal turnaround time is, and you can if asked try to fit somebody in at short notice it might incur a charge, then you can charge extra .
Steve CEO GCF (020)
Believed in Time Travel since 2035

Proud to sell Ready Made Frames
http://www.frontierpictureframes.com
http://www.designerpicturemounts.com/
kartoffelngeist
Posts: 268
Joined: Thu 14 Apr, 2016 3:07 pm
Location: Aberdeen
Organisation: Rosie's Framers and Crafts
Interests: Framing, mental health, martial arts

Re: Cheekiest request for discount.

Post by kartoffelngeist »

We add an extra 20-30% for rush orders. Quite up front about it, never had anyone complain. Had a few people realise it wasn't as urgent as they thought! Never seen it as a cheeky thing. If you want something faster you pay more for it.

Even after giving a quote, I'm quite happy to say "no problem, doing it by then will be an extra X%".

I'll sometimes waive it if I think it's worth it for us to be helpful. I make sure they know I've waived it though!

As for discounts... I did spend a while trying to convince a colleague that adding 20% on before taking it off didn't work out at the same price. Still not quite sure they believe me...
Thanks,

andrew
"The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them in to the impossible."
Etsy
Facebook
Twitter

BaBaZa
Posts: 210
Joined: Tue 21 Jun, 2005 1:03 pm
Location: Nottingham
Organisation: http://www.mainlinemouldings.com
Interests: Pubs
Location: Nottingham
Contact:

Re: Cheekiest request for discount.

Post by BaBaZa »

I'm a member of The Framers Forum will you give me a discount? :D


Yes, Place an order before 2.00pm Friday 5th July 2018, mention Framers Forum and I'll apply a 10% discount.
Ricky @ Mainline Mouldings Ltd

Twitter #MainlinePolcore
fusionframer
Posts: 600
Joined: Thu 02 Sep, 2010 8:16 pm
Location: Badminton
Organisation: Fusion Picture Framing
Interests: framing
Location: Badminton

Re: Cheekiest request for discount.

Post by fusionframer »

I get fed up by people asking for discount, so when i give a price and they ask for a discount, i smile and say that it has already been applied to give the price i just quoted.

Nick
www.fusionframing.co.uk

Never trust a dog with orange eyebrows.
JFeig
Posts: 1285
Joined: Thu 23 Sep, 2004 8:31 pm
Location: Detroit, Michigan USA
Organisation: minoxy, LLC
Interests: non-fiction knowledge
Contact:

Re: Cheekiest request for discount.

Post by JFeig »

There was a similar thread on Facebook for picture framers.

My response "This is the real world" ... not the bazaar in Cairo" I have replaced "America" for "real world" for your convenience.
Jerome Feig CPF®
http://www.minoxy.com
kartoffelngeist
Posts: 268
Joined: Thu 14 Apr, 2016 3:07 pm
Location: Aberdeen
Organisation: Rosie's Framers and Crafts
Interests: Framing, mental health, martial arts

Re: Cheekiest request for discount.

Post by kartoffelngeist »

Hate to break it to you...but Cairo is definitely in the real world... :giggle:
Thanks,

andrew
"The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them in to the impossible."
Etsy
Facebook
Twitter

Not your average framer
Posts: 11013
Joined: Sat 25 Mar, 2006 8:40 pm
Location: Devon, U.K.
Organisation: The Dartmoor Gallery
Interests: Lost causes, saving and restoring old things, learning something every day
Location: Glorious Devon

Re: Cheekiest request for discount.

Post by Not your average framer »

I have a little box on my monthly spreadsheet that shows my cost of sales vs my takings, as a percentage. This is a significant education for me when it comes to giving discounts. It is important to know what giving discounts can do to your bottom line and to know that discounts really do need to be paid for somewhere. Don't forget the saying that "there is no such thing as a free lunch".

If you are going to give discounts on a regular basis perhaps you should build in a little bit extra of your margin across the board to redress the balance. I quite like the idea of offering package deals where a limited range of mouldings and options are available for a special price. It sounds like a great deal, but the materials are carefully chosen so than the low price is not at your expense.

It is also too easy to not realise that the wastage on a discounted job may be significantly higher than you originally expected and that you are unable to do anything about it.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
User avatar
prospero
Posts: 11492
Joined: Tue 05 Jun, 2007 4:16 pm
Location: Lincolnshire

Re: Cheekiest request for discount.

Post by prospero »

There is a nice piece of wisdom in Paul Frederick's The Framer's Answer Book.

It goes something like : Halve your prices and double your trade and you are working twice as hard for the same money.

The same applies the other way round. :clap:


Somewhere in between lies the Goldilocks price. :roll:
Watch Out. There's A Humphrey About
Not your average framer
Posts: 11013
Joined: Sat 25 Mar, 2006 8:40 pm
Location: Devon, U.K.
Organisation: The Dartmoor Gallery
Interests: Lost causes, saving and restoring old things, learning something every day
Location: Glorious Devon

Re: Cheekiest request for discount.

Post by Not your average framer »

It's worth remembering that the cheaper quotes that some of these people have obtained elsewhere are probably not for the same materials that you are quoting for. The customer does not usually understand the difference betwwen quility and rubbish, all they are thinking about is price. This does not mean that you cannot persuade them to go for a different spec if the price is right. For me, this is the difference between "quality framing" and "that will do". There has been a recent thread about choosing budget priced spray guns and I'm thinking that for some of us who are thinking about getting equipped to spray frames, then this could be one way of offering something at the right price to some of the customers who want the right deal.

As many of you will already have worked out, the labour and materials for spraying frames offered at a price beating price is the critical factor. The finish must be acceptable, but you do need to be able to turn these out like shelling peas. So we are talking about minimum moulding preparation and ideally covering the moulding to an acceptable level with one coat. You cannot make this work if you are going to spend too much time doing this and it makes little sense to be spraying completed frames. You can spray a length of moulding quite quickly and there's a number of quite cheap obeche mouldings about which does cost a lot and often customers don't pay any attention to the typical texture which shows through the paint from spraying over obeche.

This works best when you are offering any colour you like as long as it's white. The moment you think about offering more than one colour, you have to stock considerably more paint, spend longer cleaning your gun between frames, etc. To make this work you need to cut your costs to the bone and be set up to doing the spraying at the drop of a hat. A lot of us won't have anywhere to do this separately from the area where we do our framing. This just does not work if we have to multi-task within the same space, it requires a volume of frame moulding to spray in sensibly batch sizes and it needs to be fast and cheap.

Those framers who make this end of the market work for them, are almost certainly needing a worthwhile volume to make these lower prices work. Those of us who cannot get enough volume will need to adjust our prices to allow us to earn enough at the volume level we can get. Most of us are not particularly expensive and to give the level of discounts that most of these people are expecting is just crazy to even consider, but a few will come up with something that works for them and most of us will be wasting our time trying to match the same prices. I rely on rounding the prices down a little as a discount and hope they won't think that it's worth trying find a better price elsewhere. If they walk, they walk, but that's it.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
Justintime
Posts: 1868
Joined: Sat 26 Sep, 2015 8:48 am
Location: West Wales
Organisation: George The Framer LLP
Interests: Gardening, design, electronic music, good food and beverages.
Contact:

Re: Cheekiest request for discount.

Post by Justintime »

Mark,
Your first paragraph feels like you're contradicting yourself.
Either you are happy that your/one's work is high quality and the customer has to be prepared to pay for that, or you're trying to give the best work for the cheapest price and you're prepared to cut corners.
Buying budget tools is a total waste of time IMO. A false economy, " always buy the best you can afford", it's like the voice in Luke Skywalkers head.
Justin George GCF(APF)
Insta: georgetheframer
Not your average framer
Posts: 11013
Joined: Sat 25 Mar, 2006 8:40 pm
Location: Devon, U.K.
Organisation: The Dartmoor Gallery
Interests: Lost causes, saving and restoring old things, learning something every day
Location: Glorious Devon

Re: Cheekiest request for discount.

Post by Not your average framer »

Where does it say I'm buying budget tools? Have a look on the forum about getting accurate cuts with electric mitre saws, it does not work, normal mitre saws are accurate enough for many uses, but mitres for framing have to be very accurately cut. Needed a mitre saw with either a soft indent, or one where I could defeat the indent and the saw I've got makes it possible to do this.

Prosperro has two electric mitre saws set to cover 45 degrees on way and 45 degrees the other way with different saws. I only have space for the one saw, because my small shop is too small and I need to fit a lot into a small space.

My prices are not chasing the bottom of the market. In fact if you look through my posts you will find that I warn others about the risks of doing this. I'm 65 years old with a long history of health issues and cannot afford to compete with those who a younger, healthier and therefore faster than me on equal terms. This is why I am niche market orientated and like to do things that my competitors don't do. If everybody is offering the customers the same thing, then the only difference is going to be price. I don't play that game, it's the cheap end of the market that does not work for the small guys.

Rounding down to avoid bothering with small change is not what most people would call serious discounting and I don't mind people walking because they want a bigger discount. My current order book will keep me busy for quite a while. More than three quarters of my large stock of mouldings are bare wood mouldings and lots of customers come to me for my hand finished frames and seamless corners. Read some of my other posts, I am always recommending the business advantages of being a different sort of business, offering things that are exclusive, different and niche oriented. A few years ago 18 forum members came on a hand finishing course that I ran in my local town hall. Read what these members said after being on the course.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
Justintime
Posts: 1868
Joined: Sat 26 Sep, 2015 8:48 am
Location: West Wales
Organisation: George The Framer LLP
Interests: Gardening, design, electronic music, good food and beverages.
Contact:

Re: Cheekiest request for discount.

Post by Justintime »

"... budget priced spray guns..."
Justin George GCF(APF)
Insta: georgetheframer
Post Reply