How many mouldings do you offer?....

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How many mouldings do you offer?....

Postby cleaver » Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:42 pm

Just wondering: roughly how many mouldings forum users display/offer to their customers?

FWIW (speaking as a punter ) when I go into some framing shops, I can be slightly daunted by the vast choice. Due to square footage limitations, I’m not going to able to offer that many.

So what do you good people reckon the minimum is to offer sufficient choice/flexibility, and how would you/do you divide them (so many % of golds/silvers/blacks/woods/metals/distressed, etc etc)?

I’d look to turn (spin!) not offering thousands into a positive (i.e. keeping things a bit more simple), but of course want to offer a wide enough choice.

Thanks :D
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Re: How many mouldings do you offer?....

Postby Not your average framer » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:24 pm

I don't know how many mouldings other members will be suggesting, but I don't think that the particular number is particularly important, so don't get too hung up about that one and who's to say that anyone is right, or wrong? Instead I would like to give you a few clues about picking some of the types of mouldings that you might be thinking about.

Rebate depth is not the first thing that suppliers, or their reps are going to be saying much about, but it is something that will be good to get your head around even if it's in only basic terms. A lot of relatively low cost mouldings will only have a rather limited rebate depth and the available rebate depth will place limits upon how much you can fit into that depth,

A normal glass thickness of 2mm, plus shall we say a single mount of approximately 1.5mm, an under mount also of approximately 1.5mm and a backing board of approximately 2mm, will all add up to 7mm and this does not allow for any additional rebate depth to fire your backing board fixings into the frame.

This is just a basic illustration to show what the rebate depth of a moulding is all about and many of the lower cost mouldings on the market can have as little as a total rebate depth of only 7mm and in spite of this there are ways of making good use of mouldings with limited rebate depths. If the whole rebate depth is fully used up, it is still feasible to fire a flexi-tab at an angle into the moulding and then bend it flat against the backing board, but after doing the sums there will be requirements for accommodating larger depths of frame content into larger rebate depths, so it good to be aware of this.

Another consideration will be how substantial the frame moulding will need to be to allow adequate, strength, rigidity and support for any particular overall frame size. I would not say that there is any definitive way formula to understand this, but you get a good instinct for this wthl practice and experience and it is not something to be too put off by, it will come quite naturally in time.

Unfortunately, some mouldings are easier to cut that overs and you will experience some of these which will be a PITA. You may choose not to use particular mouldings as a result of bad experiences in the past. Not everybody will necessarily be avoiding the same mouldings, but you will come to your own conclusions about any that you may choose to exclude from your chosen range as you go on. As they say hindsight is a wonderful thing!

Although, not everybody likes MDF these days, there are times when a customer will insist on using mouldings which are rather narrow on quite large sizes of frames and as a result I may include a 6mm MDF backing board to add some extra support. At times like this, it may be necessary to find an equivalent narrow moulding with a greater rebate depth to accommodate the added thickness for the 6mm MDF back, or even add a sub frame inside the reverse of the frame.

Just a few thoughts and by no means exhaustive, so others may wish to add to this.

I hope you will find some of this useful,
Mark
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Re: How many mouldings do you offer?....

Postby Justintime » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:46 pm

What Mark said! :clap:
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Re: How many mouldings do you offer?....

Postby cleaver » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:47 pm

That's fantastic and so good of you, Mark.

Appreciate the reassurance that I will pick up stuff like choosing moulding that's up to the job structurally - that point in isolation would have scared the life out of me....meaning, if I recommended or agreed to use moulding that wasn't physically up to the job, I'd look like a pillock, and it'd bash my confidence.

May I ask; if the sandwich (Glass/artwork/mounts/back board) over-filled the rebate, is it ever the done thing to add material to enable the frame back to accommodate it? I guess if that's necessary, a moulding with a bigger rebate should be used in the 1st place.

Thanks again, Mark - that's a real eye-opener and will gratefully be kept on file. :clap:
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Re: How many mouldings do you offer?....

Postby Justintime » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:02 pm

Dan
You can always build the moulding out from the back, like shadow boxes. As long as the customer is made aware that it will not sit flush on the wall.
If you're hand finishing, you can build it into a larger frame by adding a similar dimension moulding to the back. When it's all finished it's one frame.
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Re: How many mouldings do you offer?....

Postby Rainbow » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:12 pm

Hello Dan, and a belated welcome to the forum from me :)

Re rebates, I've got a job in where the customer asked for a very narrow frame, which has a very small rebate. Fortunately it's only an A4 photo print plus mount so it won't be heavy. Even so, I don't think it will comfortably fit into the rebate if I frame it as I normally would. What I'm probably going to do is fix the print to the mount, then use a barrier sheet behind it to protect it from the backboard, which will then [just] fit into the rebate with tabs. If it was a small rebate but on a wider moulding, I could staple the backboard to the moulding instead of fitting the backboard inside the rebate with tabs, but I'm reluctant to do that with the moulding being so narrow.
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Re: How many mouldings do you offer?....

Postby Justintime » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:29 pm

Rainbow,
I would never attach the artwork to the mount.
Always to an undermount book hinged to the mount.
If the package is tight/flush to the moulding, I use flexitabs inserted at an angle. Tape it up and add suitable sized bumpers to keep it off the wall. It's accepted practice I think.
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Re: How many mouldings do you offer?....

Postby Rainbow » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:30 pm

Re how many mouldings, I have a stock of over 250 samples. This is a lot less than some framers, but the main thing is that it suits my way of working. I don't try to be "all things to all men" so I don't need to stock samples for every type of framing job there ever might be. I'm happy with my niche, and 250+ suits that niche. Very occasionally a customer wants a particular colour that I haven't got, and I offer to try and source a sample for them, which so far (touch wood) has been successful and the customer really appreciates the effort.
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Re: How many mouldings do you offer?....

Postby Not your average framer » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:35 pm

Dan Smith wrote:May I ask; if the sandwich (Glass/artwork/mounts/back board) over-filled the rebate, is it ever the done thing to add material to enable the frame back to accommodate it? I guess if that's necessary, a moulding with a bigger rebate should be used in the 1st place.


There is no particular correct method to do this that necessarily excludes other methods, so different framers will have their own prefrrences as to how this needs to be done. Not only that, but a framers preferred method may vary according to the requirements deemed by that framer to be most suited to the needs of that particular job.

One important factor may be whether that particular method is convenient to accomplish with that framers available equipment, or whatever materials may be most easily available, or obtainable at an appropriate price, or even materials that are already in stock. As long as the final result is of professional quality and adequately durable, then you should feel free to do what works well for you.

As I have already indicated, there is no need to follow anybody's method, but I will just mention the fact that I quite often glue and pin a rear extension frame in place on the normal frame and fix it using a compressed air powered headless pinner. In my case these pins are made of stainless steel and are completely rust proof.

I would not bother obtaining unnecessary equipment like this so early in starting your in starting your own business, but in time when your workload may justify finding ways of working smarter and faster, looking at this, or other appropriate options may be part of the way forward.
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Re: How many mouldings do you offer?....

Postby Rainbow » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:38 pm

Justintime wrote:Rainbow, I would never attach the artwork to the mount.

Normally I don't, as I said, but needs must, and to use mountboard as the undermount is simply too thick for this particular moulding and obviously I can't attach it to the barrier sheet. And as I said, it's a photoprint, not of any value whatsoever, and easily replaceable in any event.
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Re: How many mouldings do you offer?....

Postby Justintime » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:55 pm

OK, but if a rebate is less than 7mm then it's unworkable, right?
However low value, I still sandwich it then backboard. Its going to last forever, and I charge for it.
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Re: How many mouldings do you offer?....

Postby Rainbow » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:13 pm

Fair enough, although Mark put it better than me when he said "a framers preferred method may vary according to the requirements deemed by that framer to be most suited to the needs of that particular job". This job is for an elderly couple so without wishing to be morbid, it doesn't need to last for decades, let alone forever. Attaching an A4 photo print to the mount and using a barrier sheet instead of an undermount is hardly the worst sin in the world :D, why do you feel so strongly about it?
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Re: How many mouldings do you offer?....

Postby Not your average framer » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:19 pm

Of course 7mm is workable, but full conservation methods are not always necessary and are not mandatory in every situation either. You both are to some degree right and wrong. Maybe this is a good time to get back to answering Dan's original question. BTW, this has got the makings of a very informative thread!
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Re: How many mouldings do you offer?....

Postby Justintime » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:51 pm

Not your average framer wrote: BTW, this has got the makings of a very informative thread!

I know right?
It's almost like A FRAMERS ONLY post!! :lol:
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Re: How many mouldings do you offer?....

Postby Justintime » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:54 pm

If its worth framing, it's worth framing well...
If we do it cheap, someone's going to have to fix the mess one day...
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Re: How many mouldings do you offer?....

Postby Rainbow » Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:12 am

Justintime wrote:If its worth framing, it's worth framing well...
If we do it cheap, someone's going to have to fix the mess one day...

I'm sorry Mark, but since Justintime can't leave it alone, I have to take issue over him saying that the method I'm planning to use for this particular job means that it won't be well framed and is a mess that one day is going to need "fixing". That's well out of order.

The OP might be wondering, Justintime, why this method is so bad that it warrants such a reaction on your part. Why don't you explain why you believe that it's so bad that it should never be used under ANY circumstances. That would at least be more constructive than simply accusing me of doing bad work that one day will need "fixing".

So c'mon, Justintime, tell us all what you believe is so bad about fixing a disposable A4 photoprint to a mount, backed with a barrier sheet, for an elderly couple.
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Re: How many mouldings do you offer?....

Postby Ed209 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:21 am

Looking forward to the next episode with bated breath [emoji3]


!-!
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Re: How many mouldings do you offer?....

Postby kuduframes » Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:12 am

I'm with Rainbow on this one, go check a few ready made's, it's horses for courses.
Better still, go to your local photographic shop and ask them to fit a photo into one of their RMF's for you, but don't run away when the sellotape comes out !
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Re: How many mouldings do you offer?....

Postby cleaver » Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:14 am

It's almost like A FRAMERS ONLY post!! :lol:[/quote]

Oh, I see what you mean. Apologies to all if I should have posted this thread in the Members Only section.

I'm grateful that Mark and others have opened my eyes to the fact that number of frames offered has more aspects to it than just customer choice.

That said, I'd still like to know how many (very roughly) folks offer. I'm going to have finite space, and need to get my head around the amount of chevrons etc. I should look to display.

If this question is business-sensitive in any way, please accept my apologies, and I shan't ask it again.

I guess I can visit some framing shops and make a rough guess of what they have displayed (and the split on finishes) numbers-wise.

Also sorry this thread has a caused bit of heated debate (Mrs Merton). But it's plain as day that everyone on here cares passionately about what they do (hence the depth of feeling) and strives to give their customers the best they can.

You should all be proud of yourselves: what other industry shares its hard-won knowledge so generously with newbies like me? I can't think of a single one.

Have a lovely Friday, all. :)
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Re: How many mouldings do you offer?....

Postby Tudor Rose » Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:36 am

Hi Dan

When we started out we went to the main company we wanted to deal with at the time and asked them to recommend a good range of 100 of their best selling mouldings to get us going. They were more than happy to offer that kind of advice. Your local rep will be able to offer all sorts of help with that. We fairly quickly expanded the number from there, but it was a good starting point. I haven’t counted how many we have on display now :shock:

Not your average framer wrote:.... but full conservation methods are not always necessary and are not mandatory in every situation either!


On the other subject that has come up, Mark is quite right on this point. It is why there are 5 levels of framing in our Guild standards which allows us as Framers, and our customers, to make informed choices about which one is the most appropriate to use. In the circumstances Rainbow describes then the method that’s being used is fine as it clearly isn’t trying to meet Commended, Conservation or Museum standard. As Kuduframes said “horses for courses”.
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