Thin relief design

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Re: Thin relief design

Post by vintage frames »

Thanks for that, really interesting. I see you are a very accomplished artist and obviously these frames are for exhibiting your own work. Any advice on scaling up your methods wouldn't be really relevant here. As you are using nitro-cellulose paints, you can get a nice effect by rubbing the dried paint with "burnishing cream". This will level out the paint surface and give a mirror like, french-polished finish. Then you can matt that back with some wire wool to suit.
I appreciate you want to explore the use of modern finishes on frames but with your keen eye for detail, have a close look at some of the Dutch old master's ebonised frames in your museums there in Holland and see if you think you could reproduce the same degree of finish they achieved using traditional materials.
Nitrocellulose paints and varnishes are great for giving a high quality finish but the downside is that apart from polishing, there's nothing much else you can do on the surface.
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josvanr
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Re: Thin relief design

Post by josvanr »

Yes the traditionally finished frames look (beyond) nice. I did experiment some
with traditional finishes, but I just can't seem make it look nice (yet). Plus yes, I
never make large batches of frames, so heating glue/gesso, setting up spray
equipment, filtering and cleaning everyting afterwards :cry: .. Grabbing a spray can
ready to use, has its advantages. And the graffiti paints dont break the bank...
Hmm but your last remark does make me curious. You mean apply wax or something?

Meanwhile I found out that polyethylene is the material to use for stencils, doesn't curl
up like the acetate...
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Re: Thin relief design

Post by vintage frames »

What I mean about nitro finishes is that whilst they are incredibly durable, they don't take well to any sort of mechanical manipulation - ie if you thump them about a bit to create age, they bruise in a clumsy unattractive way. Apart from polishing and applying waxes, there's a limit to the number of effects you can obtain. And that's where traditional finishes can be superior because you have a much wide range of effects to play with.
And the whole point of being able to do this is to create "visual complexity" around your frame. This is all the tiny knocks, blotches, shadings, scratchings and al that make a plain-finished frame into an interesting work of artisanship. You put a lot of care and attention into finishing your artworks; why not match it with the frame?
Having said all that, there are a few things you can do if you want to stick with the convenience of "modern" finishes. Whereas with a tradionally made frame, the surface is finished first to a high degree of perfection, with a modern finish you need the complexity built in onto the raw frame. If you use a sharp craft knife to shave off incidental small slices from the outer edge of the frame and then go round with 180grit sandpaper to give the impression of wear and tear. Even grab a bunch of small screws in a leather glove and scrunch them into the surface of the outer wooden rail. And don't forget to slightly blunt the mitre corners with the sandpaper.
To get a smooth grainfilled base for your frame you can try maybe spray primer, polyfilla even. You will always get the best effect with RSG gesso. It's always the easiest to sand. Avoid the acrylic stuff as it dries like concrete.
If it's going to be a black frame then just paint it quickly with some black artists acrylic paint. When that's dry, paint over with shellac sanding sealer diluted 50/50 with meths.
Now spray the whole frame with nitro-cellulose clear sanding sealer. Rub back with some wire wool and spray again. Leave 24 hours for the finishes to cure and then rub the high points back with burnishing cream. By varnishing over the black base with clear laquers you give the frame much more depth.
Next we come to ROTTEN STONE. Why do people keep using that stuff? 'Sorry if this offends some people but I regard it as the defeated finisher's method of last resort.
A very simple alternative is to dab a some wax into dry black piment and work that into the corners. Subtlety does it. Counterintuitively, the dry black particles give a grey dusty finish because of light scattering on the powdery surface.
If you want to be even more adventurous, mix dry pigments burnt sienna, with ultramarine blue, some white,and a little yellow ochre. This gives a grey dusty pigment but apply sparingly as although translucent, is quite powerful.
You should be able to buy the spray-can lacquers from any good wood finishing supplies. Try to buy the pigments from the same source as these will be "let-down" pigments where an inert pigment is added to reduce their tinting strength. This makes them easier to work into finishes.
I hope some of this is of use. Carry on, you're doing great work.
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Re: Thin relief design

Post by Not your average framer »

Next we come to ROTTEN STONE. Why do people keep using that stuff?
I don't know either! It always looks the same and does not give you the creative benefits of fine tuning the colouring of the effect. I've still got most of the original quantity of the rotten stone that I bought almost 20 years ago. I never use it.....wasted money!
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prospero
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Re: Thin relief design

Post by prospero »

I LOVE Rottenstone. :D

If you paint a frame black, it looks black painted. End of. :|

If you wax it and buff it up a bit it looks shiny. :roll:

If you cover it with rottenstone (before buffing and before the wax has dried) and the proceed to
polish it, the effect is magical. Works best on moulding with lots of nooks and crannies. As well as being
dusty-looking it is an abrasive. Used for polishing gemstones. On frames, it knocks back the raw 'newness'
and yields a mellow, aged look.

Some customers just don't get it though. To them it's mucky. A distressed frame is tatty.
If they broke a Ming vase they would think, "Good job it was only an old one". :P
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Re: Thin relief design

Post by vintage frames »

I still have to disagree with you about the rottenstone. Because of your genius and talent in making so many inventive frames, you command the highest respect here on FF. So when you endorse the use (or misuse) of rottenstone in frame finishing and this irritating upstart here in Wales proclaims the opposite, then who are they all going to believe?
If you can make rottenstone work for you then go ahead, shout it out loud but I would refer you to NYAF's remark on a previous comment - they ALL look the same!
My point is that rottenstone is not a pigment and has no value in creating a visual effect. It's ubiquitous grey colour smothers out all the luminosity and character of any applied finish. As regards a black frame, then I agree a black painted frame has no character as such but when you apply coats of clear laquer over the black then you get much more interest and depth. Polishing with wax will increase that effect further and if you want to effect the appearance of dust then a full palette of dry pigments is available.
It can all take a lot of hard work and much experience but it's always worth it in the pursuit of beauty.
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Not your average framer
Posts: 11014
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Location: Devon, U.K.
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Interests: Lost causes, saving and restoring old things, learning something every day
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Re: Thin relief design

Post by Not your average framer »

My default substitute for rotten stone and wax is cashmir beige chalky emulsion watered down and stippled into nuetral wax and then rubbed off using kichen tissues, because there's no dust used for the process, there's not mess to vacuum up. All the left over mess comes off on to the kitchen tissues and straight into the waste bin. As always, quick, simple and easy, plus no vacuuming up of any waste.
Mark Lacey

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prospero
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Re: Thin relief design

Post by prospero »

It can all take a lot of hard work .......
Sometimes you want things to look like they have taken a lot of hard work without actually doing it. :lol:
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josvanr
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Re: Thin relief design

Post by josvanr »

I give myself a rottenstone dusting right after the shower every morning ! ;)
josvanr
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Re: Thin relief design

Post by josvanr »

reading this back now I realize that I misread the previous post haha sorry..
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