Thin relief design

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cleaver
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Re: Thin relief design

Post by cleaver »

Not your average framer wrote: Sat 06 Jul, 2019 3:32 pm I did not invent using washing up liquid as a release agent, it's not a new technique.


I've been using Vaseline to smear inside the plastic clamp corners on my Veritas clamp. Before that, even a tiny ooze of glue would lead to the frame being stuck fast :head:

Great thread....enjoying and learning in equal measure. :clap:
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prospero
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Re: Thin relief design

Post by prospero »

The only thing I've done that's similar was to make weld lines with cartridge glue to give that 'industrial' look.
Never used it in anger, but did a few experiments and it worked great.

Strikes me that painting on relief designs would take a lot of practice. You forget there are four corners. :roll:
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Re: Thin relief design

Post by josvanr »

@mark lacey

I just received my 'sodium silicate' ! Hmm I must say I am a bit confused: it came in a
grannular form. Tried mixing it with some acrylic medium but it doesnt seem to dissolve
very well. So I ground it up a bit and heated the mixture. But all this seems to do is
make the acrylic medium boil hahah. Maybe I'm using the wrong stuff?.. It says 'sodium
metasilicate' on the package. It also seems to come in a liquid form called 'water glass'.
What are you using?

Jos
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Re: Thin relief design

Post by Not your average framer »

The mixture of acrylic paint and PVA glue will of course lose volume as it sets and the underlying texture of something added to this may well become a lmore noticeable after the mixture has set. Perhaps a suitable texture additive could be pumice power, or even pumice powder and some cooked wheat paste starch, which is good for making PVA glue set matte. The ingredients are all cheap and easy to obtain, what do you think?
Mark Lacey

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Re: Thin relief design

Post by josvanr »

Ooooo yes :)
8.jpg
I think I found a method that meets my needs.

Yesterday I purchased a 'cricut explorer air 2' off marktplaats (dutch ebay) and
made an acetate stencil in the form of a celtic knot type decoration. The device
can cut out pretty fine details. I first tried to tap and smear gesso on top of the stencil,
like is shown in some youtube movies. But the gesso tends to creep under the stencil.

So then I tried to spray some nitro2g over the stencil (graffiti paint) and that works
really well! It dries fast (minute or so), so multiple layers can be applied to build
up thickness quickly. Also, when the stencil doesn't sit directly on top of the surface,
but is elevated 1 or 2 mm, the spray kind of forms a mist under the stencil, and the
relief of paint looks rounded, similar to manually applied pastiglia. (As opposed to
the clear cut / squared stenciled look.) The relief thus formed has a texture
due to the spray droplets I think, so it looks kind of aged, which suits me fine.
See images below.

This is the method I'm going to use. Only takes a few minutes for each corner!
So yes, will post more frames as soon as I have them ! :)

Jos




1.jpg
Stencil cut from acetate film (book cover from copy shop)

2.jpg
Stencil mounted in a sheet of paper to shield the rest of the frame

3.jpg
Stencil taped to the frame, so it can be lifted to blow dry the paint

4.jpg
5.jpg
First layer

6.jpg
2nd layer

7.jpg
3rd layer.. Hmm.. one may even create elements of varying thickness this way, by using
different stencils.

9.jpg
Final results
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Re: Thin relief design

Post by Not your average framer »

Well, I'm impressed. I was given a Crickcut as a present some years ago and have never got my head around how to used it, I also have something called a Print Gocco which I have never used either. I can't honestly say that I have much understanding about using either.

https://www.amazon.com/Print-PG-11-Mult ... B000WN60P4

The Crickcut is not the latest model, later ones work via a wireless connection, mine has to be plugged into the computer.
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Re: Thin relief design

Post by josvanr »

thnx. Hm yes this one can be controlled using an app and via bluetooth. It took some figuring out what the image has to look like to make the right cuts. Eg all elements have to be connected at some points, or areas will fall out of the stencil... Hm I don't know about that screen printing device. will check it out..
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Re: Thin relief design

Post by prospero »

Nailed it! :clap:
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Re: Thin relief design

Post by Not your average framer »

It's certainly got a lot of potential. How long did it take you to design and cut the stencil and can you make them larger? It's a very interesting idea. Would you consider making and selling stencils, by mail order to other framers, I don't know what sort of level of business would be possible, but I think you might sell a few. That raised stenciled effect could also be quite interesting on the inner reveal of a double mount.

Really nice idea. :clap: :clap: :clap:
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Re: Thin relief design

Post by josvanr »

Thnx! No it didn't take long. I used an image from google as a basis and modified that a bit. All parts of the stencil must be connected eg if you wanted to make a stencil for the letter 'O', then the inner part would be separate circle. So you'd have to add 1 or 2 small connections from the outer to the inner part of the stencil. Cutting it out is just half an hour work or so using the cricut device. With the device I have, sizes up to 24x24 inch are possible.

Don't know about selling stencils though.. Customers expect quality etc etc while I'm only still in the test phase. One thing I noticed for instance, is that now the paint on the stencil has dried, its kind of curling up. I dont know yet if that will bend back if I make it wet again, or maybe I should have cleaned it. Or use a different material... But I would be willing to share the stencil files. If you snag a cricut machine off ebay, you could cut your own. It is kind of satisfying to see that decoration appearing, like magick :)
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Re: Thin relief design

Post by Not your average framer »

Hi,

I noticed that I had missed you post asking me if sodium metasilicate is the same as sodium silicate, but unfortunately I don't know. I will also point out that their are different formulations of acrylic mediums and the one that I used for this is the AV fulid gloss acrylic medium and I probably added a little water to the sodium silicate to dissolve it, before adding the acrylic medium.

I would encourage you to perciseve with this idea, because what you are doing looks like it's going somewhere good. I'm not thinking of going anywhere with using my cricut, as it's a bit to abstract for me. I like to be more creative from the hands on level, creativity and technology don't really inspire me all that much. I'm much more into the touchy feely bit and getting my hands dirty, somehow technology seems to take me out of the loop.

They say that you can't teach an old dog new tricks and I am coming up to 67 years old and I grew up doing things the old fashioned way. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with using technology, but I don't have the same feeling of satisfaction when there is not the same manual involvement. I just love the craftsmanship side of things.
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Re: Thin relief design

Post by josvanr »

Ok thnx for the info !

Yes working with computers can be very frustrating (at least I think so). But its also possible to cut stencils with an exacto knife. I made a couple of tests that way before I got the cricut. Or if you want to try a stencil, I could send you a couple, let me know. I think I'm gonna make a larger one tomorrow for a new frame. Similar design...
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Re: Thin relief design

Post by Not your average framer »

Thanks for the offer of a couple of stencils. That's very kind, but if I do take you up on that I would like to pay for them, as I think that's only fair. I've been toying with the idea of making stencils, when it comes to mind for quite a while, but never done much about it. To be honest, I was not even thinking of doing anything like your idea and if you had not come up with the idea, I probably would never have thought of it myself.

I have one of those stencil cutting hot knives, which is basically a small soldering iron, with a stainless steel spike which when hot melts it way through thin plastic. You are supposed to cut the stencils from special acrylic sheets, but I would probably be using bits of flat plastic cut from plastic milk bottles, or whatever comes to hand.

The other possiblity might be to cut the plastic stencils using my wood carving chisels, which also would probably work, with a solid flat piece of wood behind the stencil to press against while cutting the plastic. It sounds like this could be fun. I like your idea of producing embellishments that cover over the corner mitre joints on a frame. That's very simple, but really classy too! I like that very much.

:clap: :clap: :clap:
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Re: Thin relief design

Post by Steve N »

I have a cricut, use it in my new business (getting ready for retirement :rock: ) vinyl stickers, very good it is as well, will be using some of my shaped mount designs as vinyl stickers :clap:
Been playing with the vinyl to do lines and lettering on mounts, look pretty good when done in a matt finish
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Re: Thin relief design

Post by Not your average framer »

Hi Steve,

That's interesting, am I correct in thinking that the Cricut does not work at all without you having to be on line and connected to their website and that there's some sort of membership charge be able to access the website. I have not even switched the thing on so far, what with all the blades and consumables that you have to buy just to use it and very limited documentation enabling me to figure out what it's all about, I've just left it gattering dust so far.
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Re: Thin relief design

Post by josvanr »

Hello,

aha yes those hot knives seem to be pretty nifty tools, didn't even know they existed....

Meantime I tested the method on an actual frame, see if it works in practise.
I decided to add a decoration along the entire length of the frame, using
repeated applications of a stencil:

As the frame had a bevel, I mounted the stencil inside a paper box, to be able to
get it close to the surface, and still shield the rest of the frame:
2.jpg

I started applying the stencil in each of the 4 corners, using 2 layers of paint:
(moving the stencil after each application and allow the previous corner to dry)
3.jpg

Quite a bit of paint was accumulating on the stencil so before proceeding
I cleaned it off:
4.jpg

The remaining empty area on each side of the frame was shorter than the
stencil, so I taped off a part to match that area:
5.jpg

Then applied 2 layers again. The pattern doesn't match up exactly, but it still
looks ok to me:
6.jpg

I messed up the re-alignment of the stencil at some point....
6a.jpg

So then I added white dots before repositioning the stencil for the 2nd layer:
6b.jpg

Final result:
7.jpg

As the paint dries, the stencil does warp. So maybe try a different paint (acrylic?) next time,
or a different material for the stencil:
9a.jpg

And dont forget the painting :) (Frame was rubbed with steel wool here.)
10.jpg

So yes I think it worked quite well. Application only took 30 min or so.
Points to look at are the warping of the stencil and a more convenient
way to position it easily......
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Re: Thin relief design

Post by poliopete »

Excellent result :D and I admire your tenacity :clap: :clap: :clap:

Thank you for posting.

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Re: Thin relief design

Post by vintage frames »

Wonderful work! I love the black on black effect. Please tell us more about the frame; did you make the profile yourself, what is the base layer - gesso? and what is the back finish made from.
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Re: Thin relief design

Post by Not your average framer »

Loved it! So classy!

:clap: :clap: :clap:
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Re: Thin relief design

Post by josvanr »

Thnx! The moulding is made from a base strip of veneered mdf (244x5x1.5cm)
with a couple of profile strips glued on (from hardware store) like is shown in the
images here

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17206&hilit=josvanr

The finish is very simple. I filled the seems where the different strips meet with some
plaster filler, and sprayed everything with a single layer of mnt nitro2g. This is the base black
coat where I put the relief on top of. It doesn't raise the grain
and has a nice semigloss look when rubbed with steel wool. It can be applied in a
a pretty thick layer, giving a kind of rounded look to all details in the profiles, similar to
bolus. This particular paint also hardens quite well. I tested a number of paint cans,
most of them don't really cure hard, and the surface scratches easily, or they are too thin.
But this one cures quite hard. The only disadvantage, it smells really bad. I then
finish off by rubbing with steel wool and some rottenstone. Advantage of spraying
also is that in spots where I don't rub smooth the finish as much, the surface is still
a bit rough from the spray and there the rottenstone will adhere better for the dusty look....

Jos
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