Compo frame decoration.

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GeoSpectrum
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Compo frame decoration.

Post by GeoSpectrum »

Is compo commercially available? Im looking to explore some frame decoration ideas. Or is it a case of making some from gesso/sawdust?

Also frame moulds. Old lime/boxwood ones are As rare as hens teeth it seems. Are they available anywhere?
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Re: Compo frame decoration.

Post by prospero »

https://www.goldleafsupplies.co.uk/gild ... ers-compo/


You are right about the moulds. Anybody who has them guards them fiercely. :roll:
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Re: Compo frame decoration.

Post by GeoSpectrum »

Working on some ideas. This is the first corner flourish test. Gesso, black spray paint with rottenstone and wax.

I’m going to make a spandrel frame with these next....
6C84CB9B-F798-4F75-B4BF-2423EB856F29.jpeg
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Re: Compo frame decoration.

Post by vintage frames »

Prospero's right. I've seen a few come up on e-bay, but the decoration is never the one you'd want and they normally go for £50+.
As said, compo is available from Goldleaf supplies but if they havn't got any, PM me as I've got a lot spare in my freezer. As for the mould, you first need a carving that you want to copy. I've taken all my castings off various antique frames using two part polyurethane rubber mix from Tiranti. If it's a simple bead effect, then you can cut your own wooden mould using a small domed routing bit.
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Re: Compo frame decoration.

Post by vintage frames »

Prospero's right. I've seen a few come up on e-bay, but the decoration is never the one you'd want and they normally go for £50+.
As said, compo is available from Goldleaf supplies but if they havn't got any, PM me as I've got a lot spare in my freezer. As for the mould, you first need a carving that you want to copy. I've taken all my castings off various antique frames using two part polyurethane rubber mix from Tiranti. If it's a simple bead effect, then you can cut your own wooden mould using a small domed routing bit.
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Re: Compo frame decoration.

Post by GeoSpectrum »

I’ve just taken a delivery of box wood so am going to try making some moulds on my CNC....
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Re: Compo frame decoration.

Post by vintage frames »

Now that's a good idea!
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Re: Compo frame decoration.

Post by prospero »

Interesting idea Alan. :idea: :clap:

If you can do one, then you can do lots - all identical. That's the trouble with frames, they have four corners. :lol:

I'm looking at imported 'swept' frame as I type. (I refinished it. :P ) There are 32 applied ornaments not including the
running patterns inside and out, which would be already on the base moulding. The thing with proper compo is that you
can soften it by steaming to conform to the profile.
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Re: Compo frame decoration.

Post by GeoSpectrum »

A quick test cut on boxwood. I don’t have any compo yet
To test them but I think it proves the concept.

They will need a clean up. Wire wool I think and
I need to work out depth of cut and profiles depth, not to mention a thousand other patterns that I need to choose from for 3D modelling.

The file is upside down for some reason so the shadows look odd, plus the patterns in the wood are a bit confusing.
BC93648C-2A73-4856-89F9-7D8472B037B9.jpeg
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Re: Compo frame decoration.

Post by vintage frames »

Silly question maybe, but is that a positive carving or a negative mould?
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Re: Compo frame decoration.

Post by Not your average framer »

Limewood is quite easy to carve and although I've got a few carving chisels, I have not got a full set, so I also have a William Mitchell set of lino cutting blades and handle. If you've got the feel for doing small positive carvings to take molds from it is not that hard to do. I've never had any success carving molds directly, my brain just does not work like that. In theory Obeche might be o.k. for carving, but Lime wood works for me and I never tried carving with obeche, so maybe it's o.k., but I'm not the guy to know if it works.
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Re: Compo frame decoration.

Post by GeoSpectrum »

It’s negative, for some reason the photo is upside down. Here it is again right side up.
3F252451-0707-427E-AFEC-6C15176D012C.jpeg
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Re: Compo frame decoration.

Post by vintage frames »

Another question. Can you scan a 3D ornament and have the CMC cut a negative copy into the limewood?
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Re: Compo frame decoration.

Post by GeoSpectrum »

Not quite, the ornament needs
to be drawn in a 3D cad application. The best way I have found is to draw the pattern, scan it and trace over it in a cad package. Then export the file and an image and bring it into Photoshop, add shading and then convert it into a 3D file that the CNC software understands.

If you have a photo I’ll see if I can make something from it. Make sure it’s is not distorted ie it’s taken at 90
Degrees to the surface.
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Re: Compo frame decoration.

Post by Not your average framer »

I am wondering how you are expecting to reproduce something like a hand carved copy of a acanthus leaf. An acanthus leaf is not something that has a completely synmetrical form, but it is instantly recognizable when you've got it right. I think that it's far more intuitive to create something like this by many of us using traditional means, than by creating it on a computer screen.

For me, I find that a lot of this becomes straight forward, once you have got something really good to copy. I have various books containing various line drawings and graphics of all the usual symbols and flourishes. Copying these out freehand onto a piece of wood with a pencil is not actually as hard as you might at first be expecting.

I have a clear plastic grid manufactured for people wanting to transfer an image of paper onto a cross stitch and after creating a pencil line grid unto the piece of wood it's just a matter of copying the lines onto the same place on the pencil grid. I'm not particularly outstanding at doing stuff like this, but you don't need to be. Copying images be superimposing them onto a grid is something that people have been doing for centuries, or even more.

I think the quality and the detail created on these compo ornamentals, is going to be absolutely crucial to the marketability of any frames using these ornaments, so I think the 3D detail needs to be very realistic to make this a worthwhile exercise. Having got an electric scroll saw, it is extremely easy to cut out the outline of the leaf, with total accuracy. Although it's more fiddly to carve the area within the outline, it's really not that hard for mosy of us to do a reasonable job if we are being careful.
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Re: Compo frame decoration.

Post by GeoSpectrum »

It depends on what I want to make. Nothing wrong with an alternative approach.
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Re: Compo frame decoration.

Post by Not your average framer »

I agree. I grew up during the 50's and 60's and never leart how to do the CNC stuff, so I just can't get my head around how this stuff works.
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Re: Compo frame decoration.

Post by prospero »

It's far easier to carve a positive ornament and use that as reference for the CNC to carve multiples, than to
hand-carve wooden moulds. You need more than one. :roll: :lol:
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Re: Compo frame decoration.

Post by vintage frames »

I had the idea that you could somehow laser scan a 3D ornament and have the CMC reverse carve it into the limewood. But, oh well. Back to the chemicals again. However, the CMC would be able to carve a string of beading which is always a very useful frame ornament. What is the smallest diameter trough the CMC can cut?
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Re: Compo frame decoration.

Post by Not your average framer »

I expect you can, but I don't know if that's so.
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