sub frames for not deep enough frames.

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Not your average framer
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sub frames for not deep enough frames.

Post by Not your average framer »

Obviously, there is not much point in making up your own sub frame mouldings, when you can buy perfecyly adequate sub frames moulding straight off the shelf from our existing suppliers at a very reasonable cost. However, what do you do when a customer wants something large framed in a very small narrow moulding, with out much depth to place a sub frame at the rear of the frame?

Well, one possible solution is to use a bit deeper frame and cut a little bit off each face of a standard off the self sub frame moulding using a table saw, it may not always be the perfect solution, for every case, because there is only so much you can remove without weakening the sub frame moulding and making the whole exercise a waste of time, but may be a practical solution in some situations.

In more extreme situations, you will not be able to cut down the thickness of a standard sub frame moulding without getting so close to the groove which is intended for placing the fixing screws from creating severe loss of strength, and rendering this solution as unworkable. So in such cases, another solution may be needed! The problem is largely due to the presence of the groove for the fixing screws!

Fortunately, you can drill holes with a pocket hole jig and screw the sub frame into position by similar means, but there may still be a problem! The screws for a pocket hole jig, may be a bit too large for the space available. In cases like this, you can part drill the pilot hole, using the narrowest first part of the pocket hole jig to make a hole at a good starting angle to line up a small " screwsinker" type of self counter boring drill and then insert a suitable, but smaller diameter screw.

Take care not to over tighten the screws and end up slitting the wood. Pocket hole jigs are usually intended for use in wood above a certain thickness, so a packing piece may be required to reposition the wood you are drilling, so that the screw emerges in the right position. As you may have already guessed, there are limits to how thin the wood can be to produce a usable result, and also how thin the wood can be to provide any worthwhile strengthening effect in supporting the inadequate strength of the frame. This is just one suggestion, maybe others have other suggestions as well!
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
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Re: sub frames for not deep enough frames.

Post by JFeig »

Mark, all picture frame jobs have to comply with the mechanical engineering properties of the project. Without a "magic wand" there are limits. I have beveled strainer inner frames for years and painted them black to reduce visibility.

The client has to be taught the limits of the mechanics.............. ten pounds of crap will never fit in a five pound sack.

As far as pocket screws is concerned. If you have or have a friend with a 3-D printer, you can make your own jigs for smaller screws.
Continue to do the best you can.
Jerome Feig CPF®
http://www.minoxy.com
Not your average framer
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Re: sub frames for not deep enough frames.

Post by Not your average framer »

Thanks Jerome,

Too right! Planning to stay in business doing rubbish jobs and that take a lot more time trying to make rubbish jobs better and then getting paid peanuts, does not sound like a very good idea to me.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
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Re: sub frames for not deep enough frames.

Post by prospero »

I had 'Mrs. Simple-Blackframe' the other day. She was just fishing and didn't bring the item in for me to examine,
but it sounded like a deep frame was called for. I tried to explain that a job calls for a moulding that is physically
compatible. I also told her that 'simple' frames often cost far more than if you use the right one to start with.
As for 'black', I tend to think people ask for it because they can't think of anything better (and it will be cheap).
She seemed a bit baffled. Hasn't been back. :lol:
Watch Out. There's A Humphrey About
Not your average framer
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Re: sub frames for not deep enough frames.

Post by Not your average framer »

I think that sounds like someone who some of us think we might recognise! Is she a friend of Mr Tirekicker and does her husband come in and spend ages asking stupid questions, while she is in the ladies hairdressers having her hair done? She has not bought anything from me either!

:giggle:
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
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Re: sub frames for not deep enough frames.

Post by +Rafe+ »

Hi all, Intresting thread...

So I have set myself a few projects during lockdown, one is to look at narrow moulding for 'simple black/white frames'... For me I am happy to offer 15mm as my narrowest and use Lions - L2120 (Ash ash the example) and R&H SW3850.

I am never fully sure at what sort of size I should be considering using a subframe, is there a rule of thumb?

For example I am framing an item currently that is an A1 heavy weight paper, using SW3850 Maple, float mounted with 45mm margin (glass size 931 x 684), F2 R&H spacers and standard 2mm AR glass. My plan was to us a subframe - a345 R&H - but I have run out of rebate space, I have 8mm left and this subframe is 10mm.

I could (but would rather not unless I have to) use F1 spacer at half the thickness but I was thinking can something be fashioned using the wider spacers/fillets F5/6 as brace and using mirror plates or similar to attach to the back? I don't have a table saw so have to work with what's on offer.

I would be keen for your thoughts.
Not your average framer
Posts: 11014
Joined: Sat 25 Mar, 2006 8:40 pm
Location: Devon, U.K.
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Interests: Lost causes, saving and restoring old things, learning something every day
Location: Glorious Devon

Re: sub frames for not deep enough frames.

Post by Not your average framer »

I suspect that having a sub frame hang out the back by just 2mm is not going be all that noticable, so I probably would carry on and use the standard sub frame. There are not any hard and fast rules and as you are the framer, it gets to be your judgement. The sub frame is not going to be to far out the back to get the screws into the frame and it's not going to look horrible, so I would expect the job to be a good one!
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
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