newbie framer seeking home help !!! please :)

[ruimar]

Hello Folks, you will have to excuse these questions as im a complete newbie to the world of framing. I have done a 1 week intensive course on framing a while ago but am only now getting into doing some work. I have a couple of questions I would like your advise on.

Q1. I have cut a double mount and want to attach the photo to it. Can I put double sided tape on the back of the mouth around the aperture and stick the photo to is this way or should I just position the photo and use high tack tape to stick the photo do the mount?

Q2. I have been asked to frame a couple of movie posters 80x 60 cm. I do not have a dry mount press so this isnt an option. How would you suggest I frame the posters, other than using self adhesive mounhboard? Could i use ph neutral mouthboard behind the poster, with mdf behind this and use plexiglass in front of the poster? Would this keep the poster from rippling or sagging?

Thanks in advance

[w00dward]

Hi Ruimar,

Welcome to the forums. Where did you do the course?

If you want to mount the photo you should hinge it at the top only. It isn't advisable to use double sided tape all of the way round as the photo will have no room to expand/contract. The best thing to do is to use two T hinges at the top.

If the posters are low value then I would use a self adhesive foam board otherwise you could use a mount to keep it away from the glass and hinge it again. The other may have a better suggestion, I haven't done any posters yet.

Cheers
Woody

[ruimar]

Hi Woody, thanks for the quick response. I did the course in Cregal Art in Galway, in the west of Ireland. It was an amazing course!!! The people there are very very good indeed.

Is it tricky to stick the poster to the self adhesive foam board? it must be difficult to avoid rippling or bubbling?

[prospero]

Welcome ruimar.

What you should consider when framing/mounting anything is, can it be removed from the frame/mount at a later date in the state that it went in. Obviously there will be exceptions to this 'rule' with items of little intrinsic value. But on the whole it is a good principle to work to.
I often get items for framing that are pre-mounted and the customer doesn't like the mounts or they don't fit in with a chosen frame design. Invariably the removal of the artwork from these original mounts is impossible (or at least incredibly difficult/time consuming) without damge.
Get into good working practices from the start or things can come back to haunt you.
Often it is a question of expedience. If is probably quite acceptable with something like a (modern) postcard or greetings card to tape it to the back of a mount. But in any case, never use masking/double stick tape of any desrciption. And try and pretend sellotape does not exist. For general use such tapes as Filmoplast p90 are much more friendly. For more valuable items there are other hinging materials and techniques.
Remember, anything you do to a framed item that can't be reversed counts as mutilation and will seriously effect the value of the work.

Check some of the back posts for horror stories.

[Moglet]

Hi Ruimar, and welcome to the Forum.

Like yourself, there was a bit of a gap between my training and opening my business. You can find lots of useful information and advice in the backposts on this board as a refresher.

Q1. I have cut a double mount and want to attach the photo to it. Can I put double sided tape on the back of the mouth around the aperture and stick the photo to is this way or should I just position the photo and use high tack tape to stick the photo do the mount?

(emphasis mine)

I hope you don't mind my saying so, but this question concerned me somewhat. Before I answer, can you let me know what hinging techniques and materials (tapes etc.) you were shown on your course, and the types of tape you have in stock. That way, I will know how best to answer you.

[ruimar]

Thanks prospero, so t-hinges are the way to go, providing i use the correct mounting tape, is that fair to say???

Are there any tips or tricks to sticking a poster to self adhensive mouth board? Should I use a roller or something else to avoid rippling??

[ruimar]

Moglet

It was a good while ago but I did use t-hinges and v-hinges on the course. I dont really have any tapes in stock as im still in the process of getting together all my equipment. Could you make some suggestions as to the tapes I should stock??? Or could you make a list of essential items I cannot do without???

[Moglet]

Thanks for your reply, Ruimar. Now I have a bit better idea of techniques you are familiar with!

Hinging (T/V/S) should be reversible. That way (as Prospero mentions above), if a customer ever needs to get an item reframed (change of taste, glass breaks and damages mount), the artwork/photo/whatever can be taken from the current frame. Personally, I would never ever apply anything to the front of the artwork, whether it's a cheap 'n' cheerful postcard or an original watercolour. As Prospero says, that is mutilation.

P90 is a good basic tape to use for everyday work, but conservation level work requires better. Get yourself a Lion catalogue: there are plenty of different types to choose from. Sellotape is for Christmas presents, and masking tape is for decorating! Lion also carry a range of educational books that will provide handy reference for you, especially while you are in the early stages.

The basics of cold dry mounting are straightforward, but great care is required to execute the technique successfully, particularly on larger pieces, and lightweight media. First assess whether the item you wish to dry mount is suitable for the process (value of piece, condition of piece). Assuming the piece is suitable, cut adhesive board to size and expose a small strip of adhesive surface, anchor artpiece to the strip, pull back release paper, smoothing down the artipiece as you go, then apply pressure (roller/press) to strengthen the bond. Successful cold dry mounting is tricky enough, but like all skills, gets more straightforward with practice.

I would recommend that you practice on some 'potentially disposable' or replaceable items of your own (small items first, then larger as your skill increases). I would respectfully advise you not to attempt this technique with customer work until you're confident in its use: the process is about as irreversible as it gets, and it's very unforgiving once it starts to go wrong. Lion have a book on laminating and mounting that might be worth adding to your reference library.

[prospero]

A word on posters. There are posters and posters. The term covers a wide area. An original poster of 'Gone with the Wind' would be worth a fortune. Creases and tears not withstanding. This type of poster was never intended to be framed or to last longer than time the movie ran in a cinema, so the paper will not exactly be archival quality. Something like this should be treated with the utmost care when framing. Sticking it down in an attempt to 'improve' it's appearance will destroy it's value to a collector.
Then there are the 'tennisgirlscratchingherbum' variety. Mass produced in millions. You might think it's OK to do whatever to this sort of poster. And you would most likely be correct. But who is to say that a mint copy of this poster won't be worth a fortune in years to come. There again, if all the copies of a poster were framed to preservation standards then they never would gain value as there would still be millions of mint copies in 50 years time. The trick is to have the only one. (Catch23)

Anyhow, enough of the rambling.....

Never done cold mounting, so I can't comment on the relability of s/a boards. But the main thing with any mounting technque is to get an good even pressure over the whole surface. This usually means a machine of some kind. A vacuum press is the ideal piece of kit. If you haven't got one, I would seriously consider farming the job out. Most printers will have facilities for mounting huge prints. Trying to mount a large poster by hand using cold adhesives is a bit of hit and miss procedure. You can bet your boots that sooner or later the bond will fail in a one area and you will get a bubble. Such things as Spraymount/Photomount are intended for temporary paste ups. No matter what anyone tells you, they are not permanent. They have no place in a good framers workshop.

[Moglet]

They have no place in a good framers workshop.

Guess I'm a carp framer, then!

Seriously, Ruimar, Prospero is right about the longevity issue: heat mounting is superior, but a lot more expensive. There are horses for courses, and different mounting methods suit different tasks and customer budgets.

[prospero]

I framed a carp once. Stuffed it was. Done a pike as well....

Seriously,seriously. Ditch the squirty stuff. It never did anyone any good nohow. And it sticks all the hairs up your nose togther.

Anyone remember COW GUM ?

A chap I used to know swore by it. He used to work in graphic design studio and it was the standard stuff at the time. It must rank as one of the foulest substances on the planet. Not knowing no better I used to mount prints with it. I found one the other day that started bubbling shortly after I stuck it down. It was just in the last stages of coming off completely. Only took 30 years.

[ruimar]

Wow, the breath of knowledge in this fourm in amazing!!

Thanks so much for the info. I really do appreciate it. I might just avoid trying to mount posters ( the posters i am asking about are cheap and cheeful movie posters, mass produced)

[ruimar]

wow it be ok to filmoplast p-90 to float mount piece of paypyrus to mountboard? I suppose I could use a t hinge to attach it to the mountboard.

[ruimar]

oops.... that was meant to read " would it be ok.....

[prospero]

wow it be ok to filmoplast p-90 to float mount piece of paypyrus to mountboard? I suppose I could use a t hinge to attach it to the mountboard.

I'd say so. (Unless it was one the Ramases II did at school. )
If it's a big one you can cut slots in the backboard and loop the tape though. Or just double the tape back on itself to make a cylinder with the sticky on the outside.

With P90, it's important to consolidate the bond after you have got the positioning right. An agate burnisher is good. Of failing that something hard and smooth (back of a fingernail if pushed). It takes a few hours/days for the adhesive to attain full grab.

[ruimar]

excuse my typing in the last post !

excellent, thanks prospero.

[ruimar]

is there such a thing as a conservational tape that can be used in a tape gun dispenser? rather than just tearing off strips each time you need a bit.

[Moglet]

Hinges are supposed to be torn.

[osgood]

I'd say so. (Unless it was one the Ramases II did at school. )
If it's a big one you can cut slots in the backboard and loop the tape though. Or just double the tape back on itself to make a cylinder with the sticky on the outside.

Japanese paper hinges with starch paste is a much better way of hinging papyrus.

I wouldn't use the 'cylinder' method of taping. Gravity can cause it to peel off and it is impossible to apply enough pressure to P90 using that method. P90 is a 'pressure' sensitive tape and requires quite an amount of pressure, through burnishing the back of the tape, to make it bond correctly!

[ruimar]

ah ok, thanks osgood. Are there any essential reference books you would recommend?