Needlework framing.

[Not your average framer]

We lace needlework onto 3mm Artcare foamboard, but I know that there are others who lace onto mountboard and therefore don't have to worry so much about the frame rebate depth.

I would be interested to hear if those who use mountboard still use T-pins and if so do they insert them into the centre of the mountboard or if they pin through the mountboard. If the latter, how do they avoid sticking the pins into their fingers and therefore getting blood onto the customers needlework?

[w00dward]

I was reading through one of my reference books by Vivian Kistler and saw the section on pinning needlework. I was going to grab a sample from my mother and try to t-pin it onto the foamboard.

3mm foamboard should be thick enough to ensure I don't stab myself when putting the pins into the edge. I wouldn't try it with mountboard, I could guarantee a blood related incident then!

[Roboframer]

I wouldn't recommend foam board for lacing, it is too rigid, indeed it's designed to be; you need some give, a slight bow in the board is good as it gives some extra pull when flattened.

I also don't like pinning in place before lacing by pinning in to the sides of the board, notwithstanding the difficulty in hitting the centre of the core it leaves a mass of sticking out things that your thread can get tangled up on.

Here's what I do.




Flip that over and there is nothing in the way, once the thing is laced but not stretched you can tweak in to better position and even when it is stretched you can still tweak it, depending on the fabric.

[Not your average framer]

once the thing is laced but not stretched you can tweak in to better position and even when it is stretched you can still tweak it, depending on the fabric.

Hi John,

How are you getting it straight and square, with this method? In general I can get most things straight and square with the foamboard and T-pins before lacing, so I assume there is more skill and technique to do it your way.

[Roboframer]

Well, it's a method that has evolved - works for me. I get far more than my fair share and I need speed.

When you get to this stage .........




...... the pins are removed, you tweak, you look at the sides to see if they are more or less straight and you stretch, then you tweak again - rubber gloves are great for tweaking (thanks Ormond!)

Then you lace the other way and repeat - i.e. tweak before stretching and if need be, afterwards too.

I've deliberately left this shot big - so's you can follow the weave (holes) of the fabric along the edge of the support. You're not looking at a mounted thing, just the stretched thing against a black background.



It's not bad is it? Bearing in mind that this is closer than the eye could focus.

(the top edge has an extension sewn on)

[Roboframer]

I've done the pinning thing and I don't remember the last time I really needed to use the method, and I'm not talking about pinning before lacing and then removing the pins - I'm talking about pinning as a method.

Do I want to leave half a pound (slight exaggeration) of metal around some fabric - would I secure - say - a watercolour of similar quality/value ..... with metal?

No.

But I digress - we are talking about pinning as a temporary squaring method befor lacing and then removing the pins to fight again.

OK - easy method - you stick your pins all throught the same row of holes - therefore the piece must be square right?

I don't think so - if you are using a thick board such as foam board then all the pins not only have to be inserted through the same row of holes, they also have to be inserted exactly in line along the cut edge of the support - say central.

Why give yourself this grief - why not just trust your eye.

[Moglet]

I get far more than my fair share and I need speed.

I'd be interested to hear how long a piece that size would take to do, John. Also, can you use the same method for needlework on silk?

... rubber gloves are great for tweaking (thanks Ormond!)

Ditto from me, Ormond!

[Moglet]

Also, I meant to ask you whether lacing over mountboard works with larger pieces of needlework? Would a thicker board be better in such cases (e.g. 2000 micron)?

[Not your average framer]

Thanks John,

I still wondering how it would work for us, as I do the T-pins bit and my wife does the lacing. I'm told that I'm the one who gets it straight, but after that I'm not allowed to interfere. I think it might be safer not to rock the boat!

[Roboframer]

I'd be interested to hear how long a piece that size would take to do, John. Also, can you use the same method for needlework on silk?

It was not very big - the support was about 8x10" - 20 mins tops.

As for silk - no - too fragile, but the same method could be used if you sewed on an extension.

If the fabric is made of holes - i.e. has a 'count' or HPI (holes per inch) then, unless the count is very high and the fabric is very fine then lacing is fine. Embroideries on fabric such as calico can also be laced - but you will need an embroidery needle (sharp) as opposed to a tapestry needle (ball point) to pierce it - just as per what was used to stitch it.

Counted fabrics should not be laced with a sharp needle - a ball point needle will find a hole instead of piercing a fabric/weave that has no need to be pierced.

Also, I meant to ask you whether lacing over mountboard works with larger pieces of needlework? Would a thicker board be better in such cases (e.g. 2000 micron)?

Up to about 18 x 12" - depending on fabric, I'd use 'normal' mountboard - above that I'd use thicker, but still mountboard - maybe two sheets of normal stuff bonded together.

That would be a minimum for needlepoints unless tiny.

[Moglet]

Thanks for the addtional info and tips, John!

[w00dward]

Thats very useful, thanks John.

So, what do you all think about pinning as a method? I read on the Grumble that quite a lot of people use that method. Is pinning common over here? What would you say are the downsides to it?

[markw]

I agree with John that Foamcore isnt the best material to stretch textiles on. The very squareness of the edge when using foamcore does seem to hinder the ability to gently square up the image. Whilst a certain amount of bow in the board is inevitable I do like to use as rigid a board as possible - in the artcare range I find the white alphamount very good - it seems to have a better rigidity than the other boards in the range.

[span2iels]

I find that the method used to support embroidery depends very much on the type whether it be applique, cross stitch, needlepoint, silks etc. The four most common methods of support that I use are: lacing, pins and foamboard, tight fit - especially good for silks, and light or heavy tack.

When lacing I use 2mm conservation mountboard and T-pins pinned into the core; squaring is simple as long as the mountboard is cut perfectly square one can line the edges with the weave on the base fabric. Remember to dull the cut edges of the mountboard with an artists bone. Similarly with pins and foamboard I tend to use 5mm FB unless the piece is small then I use 3mm - again pins are inserted into the core. I tend to use thicker board etc because my fingers are not as nimble as they were and I was fed up of pinning them to the board - good tip if you get blood on fabric spital will remove your own blood.

Tight fit is brilliant for silks and removes the threat of the silk running, stress marks etc.

[osgood]

span2iels,

I don't want to sound too picky, but your photo of a silk 'tight fit', doesn't look too tight to me. Are those crinkles and buckles I see in the surface of the silk, or is it just the photo?

I have tried the tight fit method a few times and found it to be problematic in some cases, leaving the fabric loose and crinkled like the one in your photo. I could not give that silk back to a customer looking like that, but that's just my personal position.

I like pinning for very small pieces, and many framers use this method, especially in north America. That doesn't mean that it is as good as lacing though.

[Roboframer]

I find that the method used to support embroidery depends very much on the type whether it be applique, cross stitch, needlepoint, silks etc. The four most common methods of support that I use are: lacing, pins and foamboard, tight fit - especially good for silks, and light or heavy tack.

Welcome to the Forum Span2iels

I agree with different methods for different types of fabric, although I'd say most stuff I get is fine for lacing. What is light and heavy tack?

Another method I use is full support sewing and one I'd like to use is Stabilitex overlay, but hec it's expensive at about £36 per sq metre, but I have sourced it should the need arise and the cost be OK and have samples in different colours.

[Roboframer]

So, what do you all think about pinning as a method? I read on the Grumble that quite a lot of people use that method. Is pinning common over here? What would you say are the downsides to it?

Missed this one - sorry!

I personally don't like it - chances of rusting, depending on quality, nickel plated brass is OK. Pins can heve a welded head and that can rust, right at the spot you don't want it to.

I'd only use it if I couldn't see another way, which is why I've not used it for years.

I don't know how common pinning is over here, but it's not a very economical method.

With pinning the tension is across the front only - the wrap-around at the back is dangling free - tension stops at the pin.

With lacing the tension is spread and carried on to the opposite side - no single pont can relax.

[span2iels]

Thanks for the welcome John everyone seems to be very friendly. I had visited the Forum for many weeks before taking the plunge and found the topics most interesting and informative.

I suspect that heavy tack is the same as your full support sewing and used for heavy items putting several stitches in rows to support the fabric. Light tack is essentially the same but for lighter items and in this case I use around four light stitches acroos s the top of the item and the same at the bottom. The stitches should be such that they are of lighter thread such that they break rather then the fabric should there be any expansion within the frame. I use either cotton or linen thread; the thread is normally made up of six individual strands which can be easily seperated; a good rule of thumdb is to use two strands. Further, if the item is to be float mounted and there is the possibility of them being seen one can mix different colours to hide the stitches - I have used this on a sampler and some shibori silks.

I note the comment on the pins and rust; I use stainless steel pins which should not rust given the correct environment and if they did rust then I would think that there were significant other problems with the fabric art it was supporting i.e. damp=mould=acidic conditions=deterioration of fabric.

Hope the comments help I am always keen to laern and appreciate other points of view and ideas.

[span2iels]

Finger problems again - pressed the submit button before the preview hence the spelling mistakes.

[Moglet]

Happens to us all!

Glad you decided to take the plunge and join in! It's great to see new contributors here!