'polystyrene' mouldings - or is that a dirty word ?

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Bagpuss
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'polystyrene' mouldings - or is that a dirty word ?

Post by Bagpuss »

I have had a bit of a look through the postings but could not find a lot about 'polystyrene' mouldings ( is there a better name for them ? ). I was in Simons last week and found myself lurking about the Emafyl display of mouldings, I felt a bit of a fraud, as a bespoke framer I've always assumed that plastic mouldings were taboo... :oops:

The finishes are pretty impressive and the prices are surprisingly low. I ordered a couple of sticks of about 10 different styles, they turned up last week and I was happy with the finish but their narrow gloss black was a bit on the 'bendy' side ... a little like the liqourice stick you used to get in a sherbet fountain :giggle:

I haven't used them yet but I was wondering what the general consensus was about these plastic mouldings ? Do any of you have any tips about when or when not to use them ?

Any thoughts welcome ....
My real name is Adam Laver aka "Adam The Picture Framer", just in case you were unsure ; )
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prospero
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Re: 'polystyrene' mouldings - or is that a dirty word ?

Post by prospero »

Polymer? Resin? Un-wood? :P

I have only ever bought one stick and that was only to match up with an existing one for a customer. As you observe, the narrower ones are very bendy. It's really aimed at the bulk user making small ready-mades and cheapo framed prints. In fact when it first came out you could only buy it in bulk. The earlier finishes were definately made to a price rather than a quality, but there are some quite classy looking ones available now. Like everything else it has it's drawbacks. It can be tricky to cut&join as it tends to crush under guillotine blades so you can get gaps. It will glue OK with PVA, but there are other glues better suited (never tried any). On the plus side, it is consistent and generally cheaper than wood. No knots and it doesn't warp. Not really suitable for large frames in a relatively small profile. I like the ones with ornate patterns as the decorations will never shrink and drop off over time, being formed in one homogeneous lump. :)

There's also the 'Green' factor to consider. 8)
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Re: 'polystyrene' mouldings - or is that a dirty word ?

Post by Bill Henry »

This may open a can of Poly-Post Beetles.

Some of the polystyrene frames I’ve seen are very attractive, and, as you point out, relatively inexpensive. But, IMHO, they are a boat load of trouble.

Buying them “ready made” would be, for us, the only way to go. (But, we don’t.) Poly frames can’t be cut with a saw due to the friction of the blade melting the plastic. A guillotine cutter works, but sometimes squishes the soft material, I have found. (Maybe the blades weren’t sharp enough?)

Joining them is a disaster just waiting to happen. The best adhesive is cyano-ace … something (Super Glue or Crazy Glue), but if you don’t align adjacent rails exactly right the first time, you don’t get a second chance. There goes the frame and your profit. If you get just a drop on the surface of the moulding, the glue will dissolve the plastic and render it unsalable. But, at least, underpinning is easy since the material is so soft.

We are seeing more and more of them come through our shop – usually people who have liked the frame and bought it in a big box discount store, but disliked the mat or the art even. We are even seeing mirrors surrounded by this stuff. To my mind, poly is way too weak to support a mirror.

We will, of course, take any money we can from a customer, but even though we do not supply the frame, we still place a warning on the back:

“This frame has been manufactured from polystyrene, a relatively soft plastic.

It has been reported that under moderate force the joined corners may separate and/or the screws from the hanging hardware may be pulled loose from polystyrene frames.

Transport this frame by supporting the bottom or by holding opposite sides.

Should a catastrophic failure of the corners occur, polystyrene frames cannot be repaired or re-joined.”

We hope that this will cover our derrière when some kid tries to swing on the frame and pulls it apart.

This being said, a lot of framers on this side of the world are beginning to buy Polystyrene in length. For them, it is a low cost alternative to wood. But, to me, it's just not worth the trouble.

As Prospero points out: trees are renewable; oil, not so much.
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Re: 'polystyrene' mouldings - or is that a dirty word ?

Post by Not your average framer »

I've woked hard getting the right kind of reputation and these sort of mouldings would soon spoil that. I can't imagine even thinking about using them (not ever!)

The results when cutting or joining them can be very variable, particularly with variations in temperature.

The finish is often of limited durability, with the risk that customers will complain they've been conned.

They are very easily broken when cold. Do you want to explain this to you custmers?

Some profiles can be quite difficult to join without getting gaps in the corners. There usually are ways of beating this problem, but can be a PITA getting it right.

I would think again. Quality will keep you in business!
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Re: 'polystyrene' mouldings - or is that a dirty word ?

Post by RobinC »

About 98% of the moulding we use are made from wood. About 5 years ago we had a discount frame shop open directly opposite us. One of the items they sold were a range of sketches of TV characters, bought from Chantry. Just to wind them up, I bought a small amount of artcore from Arqadia which I used on these prints and put one in the window, at a much lowere price than the competitor. That Christmas we sold about 200 of these in 2 months.

I no longer sell these prints, following a major (expensive) refurb we now only sell limited editions and originals, but we do stock a few poly mouldings. 1 is a wideish imitation brown wood with a gold sight edge which we use for customers who want a cheap dark frame. The other is a direct alternative to a wooden frame that we sell loads of, but has risen in price over the last few months (a Larson Juhl moulding). We offer it as a lower price option to our customers and a surprisingly high number of customers are quite happy with the plastic frame, almost to the point where they do not give a monkeys what it is made out of as long as it looks good. In addition to the advantages listed earlier the supply is more regular than the LJ moulding which goes out of stock fairly often - the reason we first started to stock it. We have no problems cutting or joining the frames, the only disadvantage is that the Morso blades seem to blunt a bit quicker than with wooden mouldings. I share the concerns regarding trees being replanted and regrown, but as none of my suppliers tell us that their moulding comes from sustainable sources, then presumably some of it comes from trees that are cut down to make way for intensive cattle farming for McDonalds and the rest.

Poly mouldings will never be a major part of my stock but used selectively they are a useful addition to my range. If they current recession continues then a cheaper alternative to wood may even become even more important to keep our heads above water!

RobinC
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Re: 'polystyrene' mouldings - or is that a dirty word ?

Post by framejunkie »

YUK! dirty dirty dirty.

i feel sick!

In my first framing job we used lots of Emafyl to make readymades(and the odd bespoke job). I don't miss it(the job or the Polystyrene). Its true that the finish on some of this stuff is better than it used to be but its SO not for me, and i don't think my clientelle would be impressed. If you want a reputation for proper craftsmanship and like the less thrifty customers more than the ones who are comparing your prices to IKEA I'd steer clear of the drastic plastic.

Besides, I'm a geek for wood and woodwork, and shaping, joining, finishing the frame is my favourite bit of the job.

Wood gives me wood. :D

Plastic is not my thing. But i can recommend a few clubs here in London if that floats your boat....
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Re: 'polystyrene' mouldings - or is that a dirty word ?

Post by Dave »

"Wood gives me Wood"?????? I feel physically ill!

I hope you have a baggy apron.

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Re: 'polystyrene' mouldings - or is that a dirty word ?

Post by Not your average framer »

I was trained (a few years ago) by a large gallery and framing company which sold a few plastic moulding in substantial quantities. Obviously fashions change, but at the time, the big sellers were an Emafil reverse moulding with ribbed "coin edge" shape in gold with either a matt black or cream outer edge, a Mainline two tone metallic moulding with an undercut back (outer edge) and a 19mm black cushion.

The Mainline one was very popular in ready mades and easily out sold almost everything else we had in ready mades. All plastic mouldings were bought by the box and "dry pinned" (that is not glued). The exact number, position and size of wedges used can make a big difference to how they go together. The company sold really large volumes of ready mades and not at absolute rock bottom prices either! If you are in a highly competitive situation, then you may find it an advantage to sell some plastic mouldings. Buying box quantities can make a real difference to price and profitability. The sales staff never said anything about the mouldings being plastic and it appeared that no one asked about it either.

There still are a good selection of budget priced wood mouldings around too, so be careful to check out all the options. Box prices can make a big difference on these too! This company bought various wood and plastic mouldings by the box - my understanding was this led to a very impressive profit margin.

BTW - I still don't like plastic mouldings! :(
Mark Lacey

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Re: 'polystyrene' mouldings - or is that a dirty word ?

Post by Jonny2morsos »

I think I have come across the same Larson Juhl moulding as Robin.

Wood with a foil finish applied but the snag is they manage to crease the foil when applying it and damage the high spots in the faux leaf finish and then they pack it with plastic ties around the corrugated cardboard and crush the rebate. So you order what you think you need for the job and double it to take into account the wastage. Once it arrives you inspect each length calculate what is unusable call Arqadia to request a credit for what you can't use which you then have the problem of disposing of.

Then... you discover Polystyrene (polymer, styrene, plastic, resin, call it what you like) and find that the finish is better and consistent for every length it joins just as well and is less than half the price! which equates to a quarter if you are unlucky enough not to spot the duff bits on delivery and put it on the shelf to use later once the "all damage must be reported within 7 days" time has expired.

I am not a huge fan of plastic but in some applications it does have it place especially if price is a consideration. If a customer baulks at the price you qoute you can always fall back on a plastic moulding, some will take the cheaper option and some will stump up and pay the price first quoted for wood. Either way you get to keep the customer.

As far as joining goes we use Lion "Plastibond" which has worked OK and in fact when put to the test we have found the moulding to break slightly away from the mitre indicating the bond is stronger than the moulding itself. (If you can allow 24hrs drying time this helps). The cyano-acrylate adhesives (aka. super glue) are very effective but the slightest amount on the face of the moulding ruins the finish.

Some profiles can be problematical to get a good mitre so now we simply don't stock them. Flat profiles are best.

We use Lion Minerva also sold by Mitrecraft in Lincoln under their "Colonia" brand name, not the full Lion range but most of what we use is included and what they don't stock they add to their weekly order. Mitrecraft sell by the length so can buy what you need when you need it for about 2p a metre premium.

Also used "Polcore" from Mainline which is pretty much the same except min. order of £150 carriage paid. Probably a better range and nice folks to deal with if you don't mind keeping your shelves stocked.

On a final note, there was a time when all cars had real wood on the dashboard.

John
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Re: 'polystyrene' mouldings - or is that a dirty word ?

Post by Bagpuss »

I appreciate the response on this one gents, it seems that this is a bit of an emotive subject !
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