Insurance

[Elfyn Hughes]

As a relative newbie, does any one have information regarding insurance. I am revisiting premises, equipment, product and public liability insurance. Any help or information will be appreciated, especially names of companies some of you use or have used in the past.

[SquareFrames]

Hi,

By law you must have public liabilty insurance. Also ensure your machinery, mouldings, moutboard and ancillary equipment are well covered. Also ensure that any paintings, prints, stock of prints, etc are covered. I would be telling you a lie if I told you ours were classed as fixtures, they could be classed as fittings, my wife is the best one to ask for that. But we are well covered.

As a Guild member, I would obvioulsy recommend Besso they are the Guild's appointed insurers. Contact is a Mike Collinson, on 020 7480 1000, his email: mile.collinson@besso.co.uk. Besso are dedicated picture framing / gallery insurers, which is a great help as many other companies dont have a clue. They will obviously deal with non Guild members, but as a member a generous discount is available.

Having said that, for some reason Northern Ireland is yet again being shafted by insurance companies, so we use Pearl Assurance for our workshop / gallery needs. We have found that over many years we get the best deal they can provide. As they are local to us, there isnt any Northern Ireland weighting. Once we had got the difficulty of which were fittings and which were fixtures, and had decided that having a sophisticated alarm system and dead locks, didnt allow for a discount, we pay approx. £40 per month, including Public Liability, and a huge amount in the off chance that someones work get ruined or destroyed.
During exhibitions we always upgrade as a 'one off' to cover the retail costs of the paintngs, and we pay a one off agreed fee of £50 a time. At one stage this covered an exhibiton valued at almost £300000.00 and a promotional original by David Shepherd OBE, individual value approx. £80000.00. This unfortunately was not allowed to be sold, as it was being auctioned off after the exhibition for his wildlife trust, and 40% of that sale would have been welcome...but alas.........what you dont have, you cant miss.

If I was in your shoes I would try and get as many quotes as possible from your local people, and then try Besso or Pearl if you have that across the water. But the Besso application form is a frevelation in itself, it will explain what is what, etc. so worthwhile getting the form at least.

Hope you find what you are looking for?

Steven

[Merlin]

Can only but echo Stevens remarks.

We hunted around for a long time, including those names already mentioned.

We found and are quite happy with NFU Mutual. Exactly the same cover as the others but at £31 a month.

Read the small print and ask lots of questions. It can be a minefield.

Good Hunting

[SquareFrames]

Hi,

Must try the NFU Mutual, never thought of them, and we have our shop van insured with them.

I was checking our policy last evening, and made an alarming discovery. Since our last renewal date, I have increased our machinery two-fold, i.e. another Morso, underpinner, Keencut and Fletcher mountcutters, and will now have to telephone our insurer first thing and add them to our policy. I had completley forgotten to have them added when they arrived. Roughly working it out on the insurance breakdown of each item, our policy payment should rise by approx. £1 per month.

Over the Easter weekend, like markw, I totally revamped our gallery, and added a POS counter, with computer pricing, mount samples, moulding chevrons, etc. you get the picture, eh? This was done for three reasons:
1. To assist us in taking customers orders and to save a build up of customers waiting (it does happen)
2. To save older, disabled, and infirm customers climbing what quickly become steep stairs. OK for getting up, but a real nightmare getting down at times........
3. The sale of original artwork has almost completely died, not only in our are, but apparently in the UK as a whole. So another major rethink is taking place and more and more prints, are being brought in to co-exist with then original artwork. We are also getting rid of our slowest selling artists...is a shame, but wall space must be utilised.

Our shop was passed for the new disabled laws, we had a snaeaky visit from Environment Health as they ust happened to be passing, and found to be OK, but I felt that by saving people coming upstairs into mt workshop, and saving us numerous trips up and down stairs, I would revamp the area. Now, would this action, i.e. saving people climbing the stairs, allow for a reduction in our policy? You'd think it would, wouldnt you? Also will the removal of some high quality and expensive artwork reduce our policy? I will let you know tomorrow or whenever I get the policy sorted.


Steven

[JonC]

I used the NFU for the first year after taking over my business.Gallery and workshop all in one area but barriered apart.. this year the NFU didnt want to know except at over £1000 per year. They said it was neither a shop nor a workshop and wanted to rate it as both under separate policies.
They have taken up cycling after my recomendation
John F

[Framing Norah]

Hi John

I know this is getting off topic, but i just wanted to ask you how you like having the workshop on view?

Does it force you to keep it spick and span, or is it like ours - rough and ready, and strictly functional?

[JonC]

Hi Norah
I find it immensly.
The business is a long standing framers I bought last year
No Glass .Shelves Raggedy old carpet. Bits band pieces every where. people THINK they are going to find a masterpiece hidden away. All I need is a black bowler hat and the pictures complete for a 1930's framers.
Best bit is I can still work if needed whilst the punter is nosing about.
John

[Joe]

Merlin Framers you said

"We found and are quite happy with
NFU Mutual. Exactly the same cover as the others but at £31 a month. "

Is this for all of your business insurance - public liability - buildings - stock - machinery etc?


Joe

[JonC]

Joe can you let me know what cover NFU offered you for £31:00 per month
Does it cover all machinery loss. stock, loss of clients art work, loss of pictures completed. loss of pictures for sale. public liability. employers liability. money. loss of trading .
seems very very cheap.
are you sure its not just a plain traders shop insurance?.. I had that last year and they refused to cover me on it this/.... Actually a shop insurance is not enough cover especially as manufacturing framing is involved with machinary. If you get into electric Morso's and electric hand tools (Im pneumatic) the premium goes up even more.John C

[Joe]

JonC

I was asking Merlin Framers the same question regarding £31 per month posted further up.

£31 per month is a fraction of our total insurance so I was wondering what exactly is covered at this rate.

Joe

[Elfyn Hughes]

Very many thanks to everyone who replied to my request for information regarding insurance. My local NFU office came up with the perfect package for me at a third of the cost of other quotes I've had.
Regards
Elfyn

[Merlin]

Hi. Sorry for delay in replying. This is the basis of my cover with NFU.
It does not include Building insurance, as I am Leasing the ground floor of a 3 story building and as the second floor is an Insurance broker he has found the best possible there. Yet, he could not better NFU.

Business is classed as Picture framer and Art Retailer.

**General Contents which includes machinery - replace or repair. The cost of debris removal following damage.
**Stock - replacement at current prices at the time of Damage. During the months Nov and Dec and for a period of 30 days prior to Good Friday the sums insured on stock are increased by 25%.
**Business Interruption - If the business is interfered with or interrupted by Damage the the loss of Gross Profit due to a reduction in Takings is payable.
**Public and Product Liability. - £2 million
**Glass and Sanitary Fittings - I have two huge plate glass windows, so I need this complete wityh 24 hour Glass replacement.
**Money-Loss. In stransit. In premises during Business hours and out of Business hours and Business money in my own private residence.
**Personal Accident (Assault)
**Goods in Transit- customers work.
** Legal expenses. - as usual

These are warranties provided that the final exit door has a deadlock complying with BS3621.
An out of business hours Intruder Alarm system (approved by NFU) has been fitted.
Grilles or Bars fitted to certain windows.

Hope this lot answers some of your questions, if not then come on back or email me privately.

[SquareFrames]

Hi Folks,

It is with some horror that I write this posting, and the first time we were ever caught out. Yesterday (Thursday) morning, we had occasion to contact our insurance company, to carry on our policy for another year, or so we thought...........he horror begins....come closer to te screen......

Firstly, the insurance company (Pearl) did not recognise our account number, and didnt know why we had contacted them in the first place. After the usual exchange of personal details and security quesions, they found us, only to inform us that they (Pearl) were no longer Pearl and were in fact NGI or somethign like that, and had been for over a year, and that we were not insured with the new company, and here is the frightening bit.....hadnt been since April 2004. My wife asked them to restart the policy, and they stated that their new plicy was not to take any new business from Northern Ireland, so we were as they say......up the swanny without a paddle.

No one had told us of the change, no one in the new insurers had informed us that our policy wasnt renewed and that payments had been cancelled. My wife has had one or two meetings with the Business Manager with our bank, which is no more than 10 feet away, (in fact when we talk to them we can wave at the person we are talking to), and he hadnt noticed that we wernt insured, and hadnt noticed that payments had ceased, payments thatg had been going on for many years I might add. Needless to say, both the bank, and we were furious, more so blind panick.

I telephoned one of the forum members, and I would like to personally thank John at Merlin Framers for putting me in the right direction, but when I contacted NFU Mutual, which very quickly became the UFU (Ulster Framers Union), the post code lottery stuck its arm in, and a policy exactly the same as John's worked out at £73 a month, simply because of the Nothern Ireland postcode, we quickly said NO, and rang Royal & Sun Alliance, through an agent, we had a quote for the same policy for £30.50 a month, and were insured over the phone with paper work to follow this morning. So a good nights sleep ensued wit no worries.

Now, I hear you all say that we should have noticed the lack of payments not being paid, well, we didnt, as we only get a bank statment every 6 months, or when we ask for an extra one (which we pay for), we had no reason to suspect anything was up. My wife can remember clearly talking to Pearl and giving them the OK for another year's cover, but this was after April 2004. My wife even knew the exact monthly payment to Pearl, which the bank confirmed, they also confirmed no payments had been made form the end of April 2004.

Moral of the story...check at regular intervals whether your payments are coming out, check whether you are still insured by the company your took the policy out with, and for goodness sake, no matter what personal things happen in your life during the course of a year, CHECK that your business is insured and payments are coming out regularly. (Sorry to repeat myself)

One more thing....with all tghis going on....our bloody house wasnt insured either, we had a joint Home / Business policy, needless to say it is now, thankfully nothing ontoward happened either at home or in the gallery.

Again, big thanks to John at Merlin, just sorry hat NFU / UFU could not help.

By the way, the Guild's insurers Besso give 15% discount for members, not sure of the policy figure for Northern Ireland, but will let you all know when I get the 'No Obligation'proposal form to fill in.

Talk soon,

Steven

[markw]

Steven
every cloud has a silver lining - think of the money you saved. I had the same thing happen with a car insurance - you just dont go looking for missed payments and assume that the automatic renewal has gone ahead.

Besso's form is just about the longest most painfull form i have seen from any insurance company - i am afraid I gave up and stuck with Cornhill.

[SquareFrames]

Hi Markw,

My wife, being my wife, her first thought was what you say....think of what we saved, if we had have known we could have jetted away to Turkey or went to her new friends, Ikea. Funny how women think. My first thoughts were thank god nothing happened to a customer or to their work.

I got the Besso form online yesterday, down loaded it, had a quick shufty through it, and binned it. far too complicated for insurnace cover. I think I seen a question asking what you had for dinner!!!!!!!!!

Steven

[evanstheframe]

But think Steven, if an underpinner wedge had fallen into your Curry and you eat it, causing all kinds of problems to your health you would have been covered.
Also, beware if Sharron-Lee tells you she has booked a holiday to Turkey check your new insurance has been paid up. This last insurance problem may have given her ideas.

[SquareFrames]

Hi,

As if she needs any more ideas. We have got to go back to Turkey in any case, we left our towels in the hotel store, saved us carrying them home last time. They were good towels too, and I think my bathers are there too.

When eating curry, nothing and I mean nothing gets anywhere near it, I take my Vindaloo seriously.

Steven

[markw]

Steven
glad it wasnt just me who thought Besso's form was too long winded. Does anyone use, or know of any business that uses Besso's services?
Its supposed to be one of the benefits of belonging to the FATG that you can get a specially tailored insurance policy for Gallery and framer - one look at the forms is enough to tell you that its a very general policy for shops with enough questions to just about cover every possible scenario, when what we actually want is someone to take down the neccesary details and send out a policy that takes into account the known problems that arise within our business at a rate that is competetive. I know that my current policy was set up in five minutes on the phone - all i had to do was check the details when it finally arrived - sign them and send it back. I dont want to have to spend a couple of hours filling in a very long form only to find that the rate offered isnt competetive. Maybe its time to ask the guild to look at the deal on offer.

[SquareFrames]

Hi Markw,

I totally agree with you, I made the mistake of printing the form off the computer, and it took 35 pages. I began to trawl my way through it, and got so fed up, I binned it. I will send the Guild an email this morning and see what runs up the flag pole.

Steven

[markw]

Steven
Did you get enlightenment from the guild regarding Besso?