FATG Website

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w00dward
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Re: FATG Website

Post by w00dward » Tue 10 Mar, 2009 2:31 pm

TBH £50k for a complete website redesign (presumably including some backoffice) isn't too bad.
If they had employed a web designer specifically for the job he will be getting paid £30k per year. The project has been running nearly 2 years? £50k seems cheap.

Believe me, when it comes to overrunning and overspending projects I know of a US company who are champions...!
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Re: FATG Website

Post by Dermot » Tue 10 Mar, 2009 3:17 pm

At the very most the design of the type of website that the FATG would need, is a brochure area, a directory area and an online shop….and possibly an online forum….unless the FATG have something extraordinary on the way…… all we are talking about is a simple “content” management site….with a simple search function ...and an online shop….these sort of site are two a penny in the world of website design…and should take at the most a few weeks’ to design by a competent design person…….I’m would expect that the data for the most part is already in existence from the old site, mailing lists, etc. that could be very simply uploaded to the new site, again this is a regular occurrence in the area of web design

Each element of this sort of design would cost about £500.00 to £1000.00 making a total cost of about £5000.00 add hosting say £200.00 and that is it….I’m being very generous with the budget figures……anything beyond this is pure fantasy and the project manager does no know what they are doing…

Back office training may add another few thousand….any competent person with a little hand holding for about six months should have no difficulty managing this sort of site on an ongoing bases...

The ongoing maintenances of the site are a marketing budget requirement and has nothing got to do with the design of the site….

I’m still hoping that the figure of 50k is a joke….….otherwise my mind boggles……a two year project for a web site makeover ……..does the project manage know what they are doing at the FATG

Just because others have overspent in the area of web design it is no excuse for this sort of practice to become commonplace…..

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Re: FATG Website

Post by birdman » Wed 01 Apr, 2009 8:54 pm

Just bringing this to the top again to impart some information. The new website is currently being beta tested by the Guild Directors and staff. It is looking very good and has a lot of content. This includes:

- A Framing Zone which includes articles, trade secrets, archive material and allows Members to submit contributions.
- A Framers Forum for members (currently titled Framespeak). There is also one for Artists and more will be added once it goes live.
- An Art Zone again including articles, hints and tips.
- A Business Zone which includes a range of business articles from ABT and the archive. It also has a link to Business Link with information of free training sessions (sadly only for GB at this stage).
- A searchable Members Directory including suppliers and publishers. The Directory is also linked to a map facility that displays the members business location.
- The opportunity for Members to extend their Directory entry with a mini website to improve their chances of a hit when the public searches for what they provide.

This is just a brief glimpse of what it has and there is much more. The launch date is fast approaching and it will be interesting to see what the first impressions are when it launches. It has a public area for customers, a trade area for suppliers and a Members area, but the more detailed information will only be available to members.

There has been a lot of hard work, particularly by the small staff at Guild HQ in London to get to this point. The delay has been frustrating but it has also allowed much more to be added whilst the development has been going on. When it goes live have a look at, I'm sure it will be a major benefit for members when it is launched.

Rolf
(now sitting back and awaiting incoming flack)
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Re: FATG Website

Post by Roboframer » Wed 01 Apr, 2009 9:04 pm

Sounds great.

Is it - or parts of it, viewable to Guild members only?

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Re: FATG Website

Post by birdman » Wed 01 Apr, 2009 9:14 pm

birdman wrote: It has a public area for customers, a trade area for suppliers and a Members area, but the more detailed information will only be available to members.
Yes, John the good stuff is for Guild Members but there is still a lot of public information available to customers and non-members.

Rolf
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Re: FATG Website

Post by Roboframer » Wed 01 Apr, 2009 9:24 pm

birdman wrote: Yes, John the good stuff is for Guild Members but there is still a lot of public information available to customers and non-members.

Rolf
OIC - GUILD members - I read 'members' and thought maybe registered website members - with others being 'lurkers'.

Well - I just may have to rejoin then :shock:

Dermot

Re: FATG Website

Post by Dermot » Wed 01 Apr, 2009 9:59 pm

Have had a quick look at the new website….

It’s got potential…..time will tell...

Roboframer

Re: FATG Website

Post by Roboframer » Wed 01 Apr, 2009 10:15 pm

Dermot, How can you see it if it's only in the testing stage and has not been launched yet?

Got a link?

Dermot

Re: FATG Website

Post by Dermot » Wed 01 Apr, 2009 10:25 pm

John...you are not a member that is why you cannot see the new site ...... :shake: :lipssealed: :wink:

markw

Re: FATG Website

Post by markw » Thu 02 Apr, 2009 8:32 am

birdman wrote:The new Guild website is about to be tested by Branch Masters and Members of the Court. It has been a long time in the making because it was not just the website that was being designed but also the back office functions. Shown below is an example of the new home page. From what I've seen of it, it is a big improvement over the current site. It can be updated by Guild staff, and members can also upload details of their own business to the site as well. For Guild members, if you contact your Branch Master he/she should be able to provide more detail and they may ask for help in "critiqueing" or "snagging" the site before providing feedback to the Guild Office.
New Guild Website.jpg
Forgive my cynicism but this was posted in November last year - yet I sense some excitement at the news that its being tested (again). Would have thought that a web site costing the amount of money that this site has reportedly cost would have been built by professionals with enough confidence to have gone live shortly after the November testing..

I suspect that because the budget is soooo high very little control has been applied to common sense and every little whim of those involved in testing has been seen as important to the development of the site - design by committee rarely creates good design and I suspect that the site will be an impressive failure.

Wonder how many members the guild has lost over the last twelve months - I suspect we are all looking at ways to cut cost - suspect guild membership would be top of most lists and I doubt the delays on building a new website have impressed many.

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Re: FATG Website

Post by Framerpicture » Thu 02 Apr, 2009 11:52 am

I await this new web site with interest, is there a date that there going to go live?

I have always thought I would rejoin if the site looks good enough but of course it would now seem if i'm not a member I won't be able to tell!

In the mean time I've saved over £500 by not being a member for the last two years and can't recall any difficulties from not being a member. All the additional benefits i.e credit card charges, insurance etc are available at organisations like FSB which I belong to.


[
markw wrote:
Wonder how many members the guild has lost over the last twelve months - I suspect we are all looking at ways to cut cost - suspect guild membership would be top of most lists and I doubt the delays on building a new website have impressed many.
The 2008 accounts for the FATG have yet to be posted on their web site.

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Re: FATG Website

Post by prospero » Thu 02 Apr, 2009 12:31 pm

Benefits.... Hmmmmmm.... :?

I dimly remember when I was a member getting a quote for insurance through the Guild. It was more than twice what I was already paying. :cry:
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Re: FATG Website

Post by birdman » Mon 06 Apr, 2009 1:17 pm

For those forum members who do not subscribe to Art Business Today (ABT), there is an article on page 8 of the current issue announcing that the new website goes live this month.
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Re: FATG Website

Post by Keith Hewitt » Mon 06 Apr, 2009 4:08 pm

And on page 21 of Art Business Today - there is a report saying that Peterboro Cardboards had stand at the WCAF ( West Coast Art Frame show) in Las Vegas in Jan.

Well they didn't have a stand :o

So it begs the question " Can we believe what we read in ABT ? "

I'm quite sure that when the F.A.T.G. says their web site goes live this month they have got their facts right.

Sorry Rosie - couldn't resist having a pop! :giggle: :giggle:
I have visited framers in 83 countries - no two are the same.

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Re: FATG Website

Post by birdman » Thu 09 Apr, 2009 4:35 pm

Just had confirmation the new Guild website is scheduled to go live lunchtime 22 April. I look forward to seeing it.
Rolf Lawson GCF
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Re: FATG Website

Post by MITREMAN » Thu 09 Apr, 2009 5:36 pm

Hi Guys,
I am proud to be a GCF Framer although not a member of the Guild yet, I still try to work within there Guide lines. My brother who runs Framers Equipment Is a Member.

Lets look at the positives of the guild.

Can any list the positives for us Framers and the positive for Suppliers like Framers Equipment?

Then Negitives,costs ect.

Then we may all be able to see if it helps us?

May be Mary You can help

Lets get started Guys

Happy Easter to all and good trading. :rock:

Mitreman
MITREMAN
Jan Stanlick GCF Picture Framing Consultant & Teacher
Working in association with Framers Equipment Ltd, Northampton http://www.framersequipment.co.uk

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Re: FATG Website

Post by [email protected] » Thu 09 Apr, 2009 7:00 pm

I'll be constructive and stick to positive:

positive: Gives you a set of guidelines for minimum standards to work to. and in all probability you could expect the guild will back you up in any customer dispute providing you have worked to those standards. In a worst case scenario should any dispute result in litigation you can show that you have met those requirements when you framed the job.

That was my main interest and reason for ten years of guild membership in the past, and in general I felt that it was reasonable value for money for the "insurance" of having somneone on your side in the event of it all going horribly wrong.

If joining any framing organisation this might be something worth keeping in mind.

Techincal Help Sensible and practical advice, by phone, on occasion.

(for the record we are no longer members).

Staying on the constructive theme, if Mary would listen to some constructive critiscism from the pointed end of the business: the following would help framers- Point of sale, raise awareness to the public of the fatg/standards etc - eg press/media.

As the FATG is also the printsellers association, any assistance/point of sale/promotion regarding selling prints in retail framers would benefit everyone in the business, partiucularly as many framers have difficulty shifting prints in the past four or five years and many framers have pretty much given up on selling prints (apart from specialists), this is possibly a market that needs a re-boot for the 21st century.

Use a mystery shopper to make sure framers advice/service/standards are up to scratch, and reward or at least acknowledge framers who promote the standards, good framing, and the guild.



Produce a new and fresh complete custom framers manual dealing with not only the mechanics of making a frame, but operating a retail business - like the old larson jhul manual that many of us invested in at well over £100 many years ago and still think it was the best £100 we ever spent on our business.

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Re: FATG Website

Post by [email protected] » Thu 09 Apr, 2009 7:14 pm

the last item above would realisticly have to cost £400 or £500 today, but bundle it with the first year's membership, and perhaps a voucher to the GCF test and it might make the "value for money" first year's membership attractive to new and existing framers who are not members, or who have lapsed.
I'd be fairly tempted.....

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Re: FATG Website

Post by Jonny2morsos » Thu 09 Apr, 2009 10:27 pm

[quote="[email protected]"]I'll be constructive and stick to positive:

Use a mystery shopper to make sure framers advice/service/standards are up to scratch, and reward or at least acknowledge framers who promote the standards, good framing, and the guild.

However, in response to my post in another thread you quoted:

"[quote="[email protected]"]Visit your competitors (anonymously) and get a feel for what they do and what their price levels are but don't just aim to undercut them. Try to do what they do not do and offer a more personal service.

Sound advice that, but, imho, I wouldn't do it anonymously.
why?
a. you will get found out in due course.
b. you will have made a business enemy who things you are a sly sneaking toe rag. A competitor is one thing, a competitor with a grudge is something different altogether more dangerous and unpredictable.

Are you not contradicting yourself somewhat?

John.

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Re: FATG Website

Post by Roboframer » Thu 09 Apr, 2009 11:04 pm

Just thought I'd make a bit of sense of/ untangle the quotes above so who said what can be seen - this is how it was........

Jonny2morsos wrote:
Visit your competitors (anonymously) and get a feel for what they do and what their price levels are but don't just aim to undercut them. Try to do what they do not do and offer a more personal service.
[email protected] wrote: Sound advice that, but, imho, I wouldn't do it anonymously.
why?
a. you will get found out in due course.
b. you will have made a business enemy who things you are a sly sneaking toe rag. A competitor is one thing, a competitor with a grudge is something different altogether more dangerous and unpredictable.
[email protected] wrote: Use a mystery shopper to make sure framers advice/service/standards are up to scratch, and reward or at least acknowledge framers who promote the standards, good framing, and the guild.
Jonny2morsos wrote:
Are you not contradicting yourself somewhat?

John.
No, he's not; the FATG are not competitors; nor is he saying that they should publicly bad-mouth any framer member who does not promote good standards etc etc.

A good kicking from 'the boys' would suffice!

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