Am I too expensive?

Discuss Picture Framing topics.
Everybody welcome.
[email protected]
Posts: 1940
Joined: Mon 09 Jan, 2006 12:06 am
Location: Penzance Cornwall UK
Organisation: Moonshine Framing Penzance
Interests: 4 or 5 ...
Location: West Cornwall, UK
Contact:

Re: Am I too expensive?

Post by [email protected] » Sat 14 Feb, 2009 11:42 pm

price looks fair, mike. mine would be £30 ish too. if he had ten he might get them at £200 for 10 plus VAT on a good day. Well, actually, he would probably get them off some tax dodging cack handed muppet working in a shed for £10 each round here :evil: but i guess we all suffer from that sort of "competitor".

Half the time the competitor's "quote" is only in the customers pin sized mind, otherwise they would not have come to you if the price was so attractive elsewhere - probably the planet thurgo. I agree, a lot of the time they just make up prices to see if you will match them. Perhaps he has a time machine, and has been given a quote in 1989..... ;)

absolute framing
Posts: 271
Joined: Mon 03 Oct, 2005 11:19 pm
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Organisation: Absolute Framing
Interests: Reading the Lion Catalogue
Contact:

Re: Am I too expensive?

Post by absolute framing » Sun 15 Feb, 2009 12:21 am

Just wondering if anyone in the Euro Zone (Republic of Ireland) has priced this job.
I'm coming out at 47.50 each + Vat
However i would be able to give a 10% discount on this for a quantity.
I've priced using J100black,Colourmount 300 series of Daler Con Board - no undermount, 2mm glass with Con Art-Bak. (16" x 20")

As the sterling rate has changed so much i find it hard to judge like for like (Euro v Stg) + glass seems a lot more expensive over here.
Stephen Strahan GCF
(JGF in waiting)

Moglet
Posts: 3563
Joined: Mon 25 Jun, 2007 5:43 pm
Location: The Shire
Organisation: An Urban Myth
Interests: I'll let you know if I get my life back.
Contact:

Re: Am I too expensive?

Post by Moglet » Sun 15 Feb, 2009 12:41 am

Glass, electricity, telecoms, bank cards, yada yada yada... ... :roll:

I'd be about the same, Stephen, and for the job lot I'd give a 10% discount, too, as long as they were booked at the same time, so that I could do them in "production line" fashion.

Re the change in exchange rate, I wonder how many mouldings are now being bought cheaper by distributors over here? Don't see the price drops being passed on, if indeed there are any; but for the way things are over here in general, it's understandable.
........Áine JGF SGF FTB
Image .Briseann an dúchas trí shuiligh an chuit.

User avatar
DEEPJOY
Posts: 522
Joined: Mon 10 Mar, 2008 12:06 am
Location: Newcastle-under-Lyme
Organisation: inPicture Framing
Interests: Framing, Photography, Aircooled VW and time to be creative.
Contact:

Re: Am I too expensive?

Post by DEEPJOY » Sun 15 Feb, 2009 9:12 am

Moglet wrote:DEEPJOY wrote:
In terms of volume discount, you could charge him full money for the first job, but if he comes back with the numbers you could offset the extra he had paid in the first place against the new follow-on order. This way it's a 'win win' for both of you.

That has to be one of the wisest recommendations I've ever read on the Forum! Suggest you post the same advice in the "Learned the Hard Way" dos and don'ts thread, Deepjoy
Education is an admirable thing. But it is well to remember from time to time that nothing that is worth knowing can be taught. :winky:

This is a little popular thread, seems to get the hairs on the back of peoples necks stand right up, :angry:

WelshFramer
Posts: 999
Joined: Wed 30 Nov, 2005 10:03 am
Location: Llanwrtyd Wells
Organisation: Neuadd Bwll Framing
Interests: Does running a framing business leave any time for interests?
Location: Llanwrtyd Wells
Contact:

Re: Am I too expensive?

Post by WelshFramer » Sun 15 Feb, 2009 10:17 am

Not your average framer wrote:
That's what I've decided. I did toy with the idea of trying to get the price down to £20 but then I decided I had plenty of other work waiting to be done. Why do 20 frames and make £4 profit on each one when I can do 10 frames and make £10 profit on each (or whatever the numbers actually work out to be).

After all, it takes just as long to make a frame out of cheap materials as it does out of expensive ones.

Maybe the other guy is desperate for work and needs the cash flow.
Mike Cotterell
Neuadd Bwll Framing

http://www.welshframing.com
My status

User avatar
Jared Davis CPF, GCF
Posts: 98
Joined: Tue 11 Dec, 2007 8:45 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Organisation: Megawood Larson-Juhl
Interests: CMC's, Running
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Contact:

Re: Am I too expensive?

Post by Jared Davis CPF, GCF » Sun 15 Feb, 2009 9:17 pm

WelshFramer wrote:I quoted £28 each but he's decided to get them done by another framer for £18 each.

What would you do?
I got some ideas on this topic, that I actually discuss in detail in one of my classes... here's just a few thoughts:

I would instantly flip the perception and reverse the psychology.

Question: "But the other framer down the road is 10 pounds cheaper than you?"

Suggested Responses:
"Yes, and perhaps he knows what his work is worth? - As they saying goes - at the end of the day, you get what you pay for."

"I guess the fact that we've been in business for over XX+ years, we know what our work is worth.... so I guess we must be doing something right?"

"Wow, only 10 pounds cheaper?... that still way too expensive for him! - Beware - Not all frames are created equal my friend!"

"Just because something is "cheaper" doesn't mean it's going to be the "least expensive!" "


Another thought -
I knew a struggling" framer who was "astronomically" cheaper than every framer in Adelaide.... so one of the other "more expensive" framers wised up to this, he would ring this guy up fo volume job quotes, and effectively started farming out his "production jobs" to this cheaper guy, putting a nominal markup on it to sell over his counter to his client (who was none the wiser) - thus the "cheaper framer" effectively became his "cheap employee"... :) ... I liked that!

Hope that helps...

Jared

User avatar
birdman
Posts: 684
Joined: Thu 07 Jun, 2007 2:41 pm
Location: Tandragee, Co Armagh
Organisation: Pelican Picture Framing
Interests: Getting up close and personal with Val
Location: N. Ireland
Contact:

Re: Am I too expensive?

Post by birdman » Sun 15 Feb, 2009 10:26 pm

We had a chap in on Saturday who had an aerial photo of our house, framed it was £20. Our response was we're framers and you think we're going to buy that lovely photo in the carp frame? Turns out he wouldn't mind a local framer to frame his photos because he wasn't happy with the standard.

The frame by the way was mdf with a plastic veneer, greyboard back with strut and 2mm glass. Could we quote for a "similar" replacement? Quick think, 200-300 per month - well our retail price would be £18 to £20 depending on the moulding but we could offer a discount once we have established a relationship. Strangely enough he turned us down, he buys the frames as described for £1.50 each!!!!!!! Of course I did think about undercutting that but I passed ......

For an A3 frame as you describe we would charge £32, so he would be doing well at £28.

PS: Talk about caught out, Sam is on the photo sitting outside the shop having a break. :D
Rolf Lawson GCF
“I am playing all the right notes, but not necessarily in the right order.” Eric Morecambe
My status

User avatar
prospero
Posts: 10707
Joined: Tue 05 Jun, 2007 4:16 pm
Location: Lincolnshire

Re: Am I too expensive?

Post by prospero » Mon 16 Feb, 2009 12:37 am

Are those guys still knocking out aerial photos? :shock: It's years since I saw one. And it's right about the so-called frames. The last one wanted 25 quid. :? The photo (10x8) wasn't bad so I offered him a fiver and told him he could keep the frame. Nearly snatched my arm off..... :roll:
Watch Out. There's A Humphrey About

User avatar
prospero
Posts: 10707
Joined: Tue 05 Jun, 2007 4:16 pm
Location: Lincolnshire

Re: Am I too expensive?

Post by prospero » Mon 16 Feb, 2009 1:11 am

This is my old shop. Window just to the left of the black arch-top door in the middle. My old workshop occupied the first floor from right of the black door along the three windows to the end of the building. Unfortunately, my current shop is just off this picture to the right. If you look carefully in the top-right, you can just see the corner where my compost heap was destined to be.


Image

Nothing to do with this thread. I just thought Robo would like to see the horrendous parking facilities :lol: :lol: :lol: . No marked bays, no double yellows and no traffic wardens. Chip shop one side, bank on the other. Two pubs within spitting distance.

It's quite a lot busier nowadays. There are marked bays and a small stretch of double yellows. Not that anyone takes a blind bit of notice of them as there are still no traffic wardens.
Watch Out. There's A Humphrey About

WelshFramer
Posts: 999
Joined: Wed 30 Nov, 2005 10:03 am
Location: Llanwrtyd Wells
Organisation: Neuadd Bwll Framing
Interests: Does running a framing business leave any time for interests?
Location: Llanwrtyd Wells
Contact:

Re: Am I too expensive?

Post by WelshFramer » Mon 16 Feb, 2009 9:29 am

Some interesting thoughts, Jared.

Anyway, I've decided to pass up on the job. The customer has given me some other work - printing some of his photos and laminating them. He's also asked me to frame one of his black-and-white photos where I suggested a black-core white window mount with a V-groove and a plain white frame. It will be interesting to see if that sells any quicker than his other stuff.

Fortunately(?) the other framer is some distance away.

We already have a cheap framer in the town even though his prices aren't any lower than mine. I had a customer bring one of his frames in recently and asked me to reframe her art 'properly'. The mitres didn't meet, the glass was smaller than the frame by about 10 mm, the window mount was narrow and badly cut and he'd got blue biro on her charcoal drawing. Somehow he still seems to get work.
Mike Cotterell
Neuadd Bwll Framing

http://www.welshframing.com
My status

w00dward
Posts: 204
Joined: Fri 02 Mar, 2007 11:50 am
Location: Launceston, Cornwall
Organisation: Just here
Interests: 42
Location: Launceston, Cornwall

Re: Am I too expensive?

Post by w00dward » Mon 16 Feb, 2009 10:23 am

We already have a cheap framer in the town even though his prices aren't any lower than mine. I had a customer bring one of his frames in recently and asked me to reframe her art 'properly'. The mitres didn't meet, the glass was smaller than the frame by about 10 mm, the window mount was narrow and badly cut and he'd got blue biro on her charcoal drawing. Somehow he still seems to get work.
There's hope for me yet!!
Paul.

Alcohol does not make you FAT
- it makes you LEAN ….
against tables, chairs, floors, walls and ugly people.

User avatar
gesso
Posts: 554
Joined: Mon 03 Dec, 2007 10:01 am
Location: Gloucestershire
Organisation: The Gilders Studio
Interests: see above
Location: Cheltenham
Contact:

Re: Am I too expensive?

Post by gesso » Mon 16 Feb, 2009 6:47 pm

Looking at the prices quoted on here I AM too expensive for your customer.
My price came out equal to the Euro zone.
Anyone looking for frames that cheep, I usually tell em to go to Shabitat, get the frames there and I'ld cut the mounts to fit.
If I can take the work away from the budget framers in my area I see it as a way of raising the standard of framing in my city......Honest!

User avatar
barton
Posts: 66
Joined: Mon 26 Mar, 2007 10:51 pm
Location: Chesterfield
Organisation: Brampton Courtyard
Interests: art, music, drinking
Location: Chesterfield
Contact:

Re: Am I too expensive?

Post by barton » Fri 05 Jun, 2009 2:45 pm

Can I just ask, when you guys were quoting, were you including dry mounting? Also, if not, how would you be attaching the photos?

WelshFramer
Posts: 999
Joined: Wed 30 Nov, 2005 10:03 am
Location: Llanwrtyd Wells
Organisation: Neuadd Bwll Framing
Interests: Does running a framing business leave any time for interests?
Location: Llanwrtyd Wells
Contact:

Re: Am I too expensive?

Post by WelshFramer » Fri 05 Jun, 2009 2:48 pm

Probably not for the price I was quoting - just a bit of P70 I imagine.

The photographer got the other (cheaper) framer to do his framing. A couple of visitors to the exhibition commented that the framing looked dreadful. :D
Mike Cotterell
Neuadd Bwll Framing

http://www.welshframing.com
My status

User avatar
gesso
Posts: 554
Joined: Mon 03 Dec, 2007 10:01 am
Location: Gloucestershire
Organisation: The Gilders Studio
Interests: see above
Location: Cheltenham
Contact:

Re: Am I too expensive?

Post by gesso » Fri 05 Jun, 2009 2:56 pm

That'll teach the tight fisted ********

WelshFramer
Posts: 999
Joined: Wed 30 Nov, 2005 10:03 am
Location: Llanwrtyd Wells
Organisation: Neuadd Bwll Framing
Interests: Does running a framing business leave any time for interests?
Location: Llanwrtyd Wells
Contact:

Re: Am I too expensive?

Post by WelshFramer » Fri 05 Jun, 2009 3:02 pm

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Mike Cotterell
Neuadd Bwll Framing

http://www.welshframing.com
My status

User avatar
barton
Posts: 66
Joined: Mon 26 Mar, 2007 10:51 pm
Location: Chesterfield
Organisation: Brampton Courtyard
Interests: art, music, drinking
Location: Chesterfield
Contact:

Re: Am I too expensive?

Post by barton » Fri 05 Jun, 2009 3:17 pm

Thanks for the fast answer!

Revealing my ignorance, but what is p70?

User avatar
Jonny2morsos
Posts: 2231
Joined: Wed 12 Mar, 2008 10:28 pm
Location: Lincs
Organisation: Northborough Framing
Interests: Fly Fishing, Photography and Real Ale.
Location: Market Deeping

Re: Am I too expensive?

Post by Jonny2morsos » Fri 05 Jun, 2009 3:52 pm

This is it

http://www.lionpic.co.uk/Catalog/Produc ... earch=4856

Available from other suppliers also comes in 1.5" and 2"

John.

Post Reply