I picked up a few free samples of Polcore while I was at Wessex Pictures the other day, its the first time I've come across it. Wessex are a bit pricey, Mainline Mouldings would seem to be the best supplier, but you need to place quite a big order.
When I searched this forum it would seem that there are other similar products but with different tradenames.
And Wessex sell Polcore Glue which is basically Super Glue, and expensive. Surely a basic airfix type cement like UHU would be better?
I'd appreciate any advice before I commit myself.
The samples I played with came up lovely. And for bashing out 10 x 8 frames for my mates wedding photography business, it might be just the ticket.
Right now I'm very impressed with Polcore, are there any drawbacks?
Polcore
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Cholmondley Farquarr
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Polcore
Bodget Floggit & Scarper
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Roboframer
Re: Polcore
Welcome to the Forum CF!
No experience with plastic mouldings but I do know that D&J Simons have made their 'emafyl' range, or at least/maybe some of it, more easily purchase-able to the lower volume user.
No idea how prices compare, but if it's the same as wood mouldings I doubt Simon's prices could be matched and if you want to get serious with them it gets even better!
No experience with plastic mouldings but I do know that D&J Simons have made their 'emafyl' range, or at least/maybe some of it, more easily purchase-able to the lower volume user.
No idea how prices compare, but if it's the same as wood mouldings I doubt Simon's prices could be matched and if you want to get serious with them it gets even better!
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Bagpuss
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Re: Polcore
I haven't heard of Polcore but have bought Emafyl from Simons in the last 6 months, some of their range you can now buy a couple of sticks at a time.
I think smaller photograph frames would be fine but I was amazed at just how 'bendy' the stuff is ?? It is as cheap as chips though !
I think smaller photograph frames would be fine but I was amazed at just how 'bendy' the stuff is ?? It is as cheap as chips though !
My real name is Adam Laver aka "Adam The Picture Framer", just in case you were unsure ; )
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Not your average framer
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Re: Polcore
I'm not a big fan of any kind of synthetic mouldings and that goes for both polymer (plastic) mouldings and also paper wrapped MDF, but what do you expect from a hand-finishing framer. However the framing and gallery company who were kind enough to give me my six months training placement which started me off, used loads of synthetic mouldings and they were very popular with the customers.
They never glued any of the mitres in the Polcore or Emafyl and they usually held together quite o.k. I suspect that they put a lot of thought into which mouldings would produce the best results. These mouldings can be a bit more different to cut and join than normal wood mouldings and on some of the more difficult profiles there may be a bit of a learning curve, but it's no big deal.
If your workshop gets really cold in the winter, you may from time to time have trouble getting a really good cut sometimes when it's too cold, but even then it's only the occasional chipped cut. You can always salvage it and cut that bit down to a smaller size. If you are doing a batch of frames and it's a bit cold cut the longs first and any bad cuts can be re-worked into shorts.
Some quite expensive art was framed in it and displayed in sell. To me it was always obvious what it was, but the customers had no idea and happily paid top money for it. It was used a lot for ready made frames too! There were almost no problems with any of the frames made with these mouldings and in the few cases where a frame was accidentally broken or damaged a free replacement soon resulted in a happy customer. The damaged frames were re-made into smaller frames and then sold.
To make Polcore or Emafyl really pay, it's very helpful to pick very few profiles and buy by the box. The savings are massive. Where I used to work always did this and had two very heavily advertised framing and art sales each year. In a good sale they sometimes sold a thousand or so frames, obviously heavily discounted, but it paid off really well.
Simons also have a paper wrapped MDF range. A lot of paper wrapped MDF is not that good, but if you must go down that route, the Simons ones are about the best available and they cut and join quite nicely.
They never glued any of the mitres in the Polcore or Emafyl and they usually held together quite o.k. I suspect that they put a lot of thought into which mouldings would produce the best results. These mouldings can be a bit more different to cut and join than normal wood mouldings and on some of the more difficult profiles there may be a bit of a learning curve, but it's no big deal.
If your workshop gets really cold in the winter, you may from time to time have trouble getting a really good cut sometimes when it's too cold, but even then it's only the occasional chipped cut. You can always salvage it and cut that bit down to a smaller size. If you are doing a batch of frames and it's a bit cold cut the longs first and any bad cuts can be re-worked into shorts.
Some quite expensive art was framed in it and displayed in sell. To me it was always obvious what it was, but the customers had no idea and happily paid top money for it. It was used a lot for ready made frames too! There were almost no problems with any of the frames made with these mouldings and in the few cases where a frame was accidentally broken or damaged a free replacement soon resulted in a happy customer. The damaged frames were re-made into smaller frames and then sold.
To make Polcore or Emafyl really pay, it's very helpful to pick very few profiles and buy by the box. The savings are massive. Where I used to work always did this and had two very heavily advertised framing and art sales each year. In a good sale they sometimes sold a thousand or so frames, obviously heavily discounted, but it paid off really well.
Simons also have a paper wrapped MDF range. A lot of paper wrapped MDF is not that good, but if you must go down that route, the Simons ones are about the best available and they cut and join quite nicely.
Mark Lacey
“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
Re: Polcore
Pros:
Cheap
Consistent
Doesn't warp
No knots
No woodworm.
Cons:
Extremely bendy, so no large, thin frames.
Doesn't cut as accurately as wood.
It's aimed at the cheapo end of the market, so finishes tend to be a tad naff. Having said that, some are quite good.
Like everything else, it has it's place.
** Mark. We have exactly the same number of posts.
Ever tried H/F plastic mouldings?
Cheap
Consistent
Doesn't warp
No knots
No woodworm.
Cons:
Extremely bendy, so no large, thin frames.
Doesn't cut as accurately as wood.
It's aimed at the cheapo end of the market, so finishes tend to be a tad naff. Having said that, some are quite good.
Like everything else, it has it's place.
** Mark. We have exactly the same number of posts.
Ever tried H/F plastic mouldings?Watch Out. There's A Humphrey About
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Jonny2morsos
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Re: Polcore
Don't use Polcore much these days as I rarely could make up a minimum order with Mainline mouldings but it is OK if you choose the right profiles with the flat ones being the best to join neatly. I think Wessex are finding their way with Polcore and our local branch does not stock a lot so has to get it sent up from head office. Personally I think they could have made a better selection from the Polcore range.
We have always joined synthetic mouldings with Lion Plastibond adhesive. It is water based and does not damage the finish of the face of the moulding unlike the two part cyanoacrylate adhesives.
Now days we use Lion Minerva mouldings which are pretty decent and most are available single stick and all individually wrapped in plastic so stores well. Also we have a local wholesaler who stock about half the Lion Minerva range as their own brand so we tend to concentrate on these.
I don't have any particular qualms about using synthetic mouldings as I feel they fill a gap in the market and are great for artists/photographers who want a presentable frame at a reasonable price. A good quality synthetic is far better than a poor quality wood moulding in my opinion.
Try a few profiles and see how you get on with them. Anything that doesn't join nicely we will not offer.
John
We have always joined synthetic mouldings with Lion Plastibond adhesive. It is water based and does not damage the finish of the face of the moulding unlike the two part cyanoacrylate adhesives.
Now days we use Lion Minerva mouldings which are pretty decent and most are available single stick and all individually wrapped in plastic so stores well. Also we have a local wholesaler who stock about half the Lion Minerva range as their own brand so we tend to concentrate on these.
I don't have any particular qualms about using synthetic mouldings as I feel they fill a gap in the market and are great for artists/photographers who want a presentable frame at a reasonable price. A good quality synthetic is far better than a poor quality wood moulding in my opinion.
Try a few profiles and see how you get on with them. Anything that doesn't join nicely we will not offer.
John
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Nigel Nobody
Re: Polcore
I sell 'synthetic' mouldings. Only the ones that don't look like they are plastic. I don't really care whether they are called emafyl, polcore, plastic or synthetic.
I have found that super glue works very well. I apply glue to one side of the joint then hold it together until the glue sets, Repeat three more times, leave it for a few minutes then vee nail the joints.
As far as the bendiness is concerned, it is a problem but can easily be overcome by fixing a 1" by a quarter inch piece of timber on the back. I use PVA glue and staples to fix it on the back. This gives an amazing amount of stiffness to a 4 to 5 ft leg.
Prospero, I agree with your pro's and con's except for the cutting. I find that when skimmed on a sharp chopper the joints produced is as good as and many times, better than wood mouldings. Perhaps we get different plastic down here?
One other pro - costs less than wood, but can be marked up at a higher rate so there can be more profit dollars/pounds.
I have found that super glue works very well. I apply glue to one side of the joint then hold it together until the glue sets, Repeat three more times, leave it for a few minutes then vee nail the joints.
As far as the bendiness is concerned, it is a problem but can easily be overcome by fixing a 1" by a quarter inch piece of timber on the back. I use PVA glue and staples to fix it on the back. This gives an amazing amount of stiffness to a 4 to 5 ft leg.
Prospero, I agree with your pro's and con's except for the cutting. I find that when skimmed on a sharp chopper the joints produced is as good as and many times, better than wood mouldings. Perhaps we get different plastic down here?
One other pro - costs less than wood, but can be marked up at a higher rate so there can be more profit dollars/pounds.
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Jonny2morsos
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Re: Polcore
Forgot to mention the cutting.
Take many small cuts not big bites and position your wedges in the inner third.
Avoid the deep rebate mouldings strangely with the exception of black as it seems to be more supple than the others.
john.
Take many small cuts not big bites and position your wedges in the inner third.
Avoid the deep rebate mouldings strangely with the exception of black as it seems to be more supple than the others.
john.
Re: Polcore
Good point Ormond. Although fixing a piece of wood to the back does the trick, it does somewhat defeat the object. The timber might cost more than the plastic moulding. And yes, you can get good joints if you take care. Trouble is, a lot of people don't. 
I think where poly moulding really comes into it's own is BIG chunky mouldings. With or without ornaments. Some of these need a lot of wood to make them and most of if is machined away. This makes them expensive.
Poly is extruded so no waste as such. They also can be recyled back into more moulding. Applied compo ornamentation can shrink and drop off in time. No danger of that happening on poly. It's all in one lump.
* I've done a few tests on poly mouldings for hand-finishing. If you rub down poly mouldings and apply a coat of shellac, they will take water based paints.
I think where poly moulding really comes into it's own is BIG chunky mouldings. With or without ornaments. Some of these need a lot of wood to make them and most of if is machined away. This makes them expensive.
Poly is extruded so no waste as such. They also can be recyled back into more moulding. Applied compo ornamentation can shrink and drop off in time. No danger of that happening on poly. It's all in one lump.
* I've done a few tests on poly mouldings for hand-finishing. If you rub down poly mouldings and apply a coat of shellac, they will take water based paints.
Watch Out. There's A Humphrey About
Re: Polcore
A few years ago i wouldn't have given polycor mouldings the time of day, but have to say that i've been converted particulary by the excellent range offered by Mainline mouldings and the consistency of the quality & value for money.
Some of the finishes are so good these days it's very difficult to tell whether they are plastics or wood and as already has been said you can put a decent profit margin on jobs using this stuff without making the customer wince at the price.
What I would say is choose your profiles with care. The flatter ones are definitely better to work with, but to be honest when it comes to glue, i've tried both the lion plastibond glue and standard PVA and have found the PVA to be just as good when used with wedges. You need to make sure that the wedges are put in no further back than the centre of the moulding though and i would recommend giving them setting time.
I think there's still a slight snobery in the trade regarding polycore moudlings, which are often looked on by some as been only fit for the contract market. At one time i may have agreed with this but these days the quality and finishes are so good i think that there is room for those framers who are canny enough to use them in their bespoke framing businesses to add more profitabilty without compromising too much on the aesthetics/quality of the frames they produce.
The only downside really to polycor mouldings is that thin profiles are no good for large frames as they would warp but then again so would thin wood profiles. Also when cutting them you'll possibly find that you'll have to send your Morso blades for sharpening more often as they tend to blunt slightly quicker. Other than this though i'd say give them a try. At the end of the day you'll decide for yourself whether they are for you or not.
Vix
Some of the finishes are so good these days it's very difficult to tell whether they are plastics or wood and as already has been said you can put a decent profit margin on jobs using this stuff without making the customer wince at the price.
What I would say is choose your profiles with care. The flatter ones are definitely better to work with, but to be honest when it comes to glue, i've tried both the lion plastibond glue and standard PVA and have found the PVA to be just as good when used with wedges. You need to make sure that the wedges are put in no further back than the centre of the moulding though and i would recommend giving them setting time.
I think there's still a slight snobery in the trade regarding polycore moudlings, which are often looked on by some as been only fit for the contract market. At one time i may have agreed with this but these days the quality and finishes are so good i think that there is room for those framers who are canny enough to use them in their bespoke framing businesses to add more profitabilty without compromising too much on the aesthetics/quality of the frames they produce.
The only downside really to polycor mouldings is that thin profiles are no good for large frames as they would warp but then again so would thin wood profiles. Also when cutting them you'll possibly find that you'll have to send your Morso blades for sharpening more often as they tend to blunt slightly quicker. Other than this though i'd say give them a try. At the end of the day you'll decide for yourself whether they are for you or not.
Vix
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Nigel Nobody
Re: Polcore
Hardware stores have cover strips that are quite inexpensive, but even if the wood does cost $1/metre, on a large frame a few metres only adds $4 -$6, which is easily recouped by the extra markup.prospero wrote:Good point Ormond. Although fixing a piece of wood to the back does the trick, it does somewhat defeat the object. The timber might cost more than the plastic moulding.
Another good use for dinted or defected mouldings is to cut them into 1/4 inch flat strips for this purpose using a table style circular saw. I have one of these so it's easy for me. I also have a cheap thicknesser so I can dress the wood too, but this isn't an absolute necessity.
I find that it's no more trouble than any other moulding really. I cut my pieces a couple of millimetres oversize on a double mitre saw, then skim the joints on the chopper. Using a chopper alone, you may have to make a few more chops than a wood moulding, but as long as the last couple of bites are only about 1 millimetre and the blades are sharp, a perfect joint is possible with any of the plastic mouldings I have used.prospero wrote:And yes, you can get good joints if you take care. Trouble is, a lot of people don't.
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Not your average framer
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Re: Polcore
Hi Peter,prospero wrote:** Mark. We have exactly the same number of posts.
I have thought about it. Emafyl have some massive architectural mouldings which would look awesome. They come with a white matt finish and as they are intended for door trims, coving, dado rails and ceilings, then they must be intended to be painted. I think that they would make some incredible looking frames and if stacked in combination with wood mouldings too, them they would be suitably strong and ridgid too!
Mark Lacey
“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
Re: Polcore
Seen the stuff you mean Mark. Just waiting for someone to come in wanting a HUGE frame.
btw. Have you seen the Grumble topic about the 'Washington Crossing the Delaware' frame? It's awesome. All hand carved and gilded. Collosal ornaments. I think the whole thing weighs about 3 tons (or 3000lbs???).
$ 500,000 or thereabouts.
Back to plastic. Some one brought in a mirror/frame a while back. One of those strange curly-wurly shapes with scrolls and things. It was a one-piece plastic cast. Customer didn't like the blingy gold finish. I rubbed it down and painted it with ripple paint, lightly stippled. Then a coat of off-white acrylic follwed by wash'n'wipe with dilute raw umber. A good waxing and a buff up with a yellow duster and bingo -> Carved ivory. If I say so myself it looked 'kin great.
btw. Have you seen the Grumble topic about the 'Washington Crossing the Delaware' frame? It's awesome. All hand carved and gilded. Collosal ornaments. I think the whole thing weighs about 3 tons (or 3000lbs???).
$ 500,000 or thereabouts.
Back to plastic. Some one brought in a mirror/frame a while back. One of those strange curly-wurly shapes with scrolls and things. It was a one-piece plastic cast. Customer didn't like the blingy gold finish. I rubbed it down and painted it with ripple paint, lightly stippled. Then a coat of off-white acrylic follwed by wash'n'wipe with dilute raw umber. A good waxing and a buff up with a yellow duster and bingo -> Carved ivory. If I say so myself it looked 'kin great.
Watch Out. There's A Humphrey About
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Teresa
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Re: Polcore
Wont touch it ! framed a pic for teenage daughter's room, she took it off the wall to move, must have put it down too hard, picked it up , corner popped apart glass broke, not safe, i had glued it , put in enough pins and taped it well, just goes to show.I also think screws in plastic are not as safe as wood, as a bespoke framer i have my standards, although if someone is trying to save money they can go to wilkinsons buy a plastic frame and i will cut a mount and make it look as good as i can !
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Cholmondley Farquarr
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Re: Polcore
Thanks for your replies, I have some samples on the way from Mainline Mouldings.
I'm no Framing Snob, but wouldn't have touched plastic mouldings in the past, but they seem to have come up in the world.
I'm a loyal customer of DJ Simons for more than 10 years, but for a cheap plain flat black moulding for photos, this Polcore looks very promising.
I've discovered that there are different grades of Super Glue, and I shall be experimenting.
I'm no Framing Snob, but wouldn't have touched plastic mouldings in the past, but they seem to have come up in the world.
I'm a loyal customer of DJ Simons for more than 10 years, but for a cheap plain flat black moulding for photos, this Polcore looks very promising.
I've discovered that there are different grades of Super Glue, and I shall be experimenting.
Bodget Floggit & Scarper
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Roboframer
Re: Polcore
We sell a superglue and a superglue gel - no idea if it would be any good - all the instructions are in German! 
Cheap as chips though - bought for re-sale. I wouldn't object to another stab at plastic mouldings - does any one type stand out - Emafyl vv Polcore etc?
Cheap as chips though - bought for re-sale. I wouldn't object to another stab at plastic mouldings - does any one type stand out - Emafyl vv Polcore etc?
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BaBaZa
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Re: Polcore
Roboframer (or anyone else) - if you would like to try some Polcore I would be happy to send you some pieces to allow you to make up a frame and see how it has changed from the original plastic mouldings from 15 years ago. Just send an Email with your address.
ricky@mainlinemouldings.co.uk
ricky@mainlinemouldings.co.uk
Ricky @ Mainline Mouldings Ltd
Twitter #MainlinePolcore
Twitter #MainlinePolcore
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Nigel Nobody
Re: Polcore
I would be very interested in where you found this information and what the grades are.Cholmondley Farquarr wrote:I've discovered that there are different grades of Super Glue, and I shall be experimenting.
I have tried many brands of Cyanoacrylate and apart from varying viscosity/curing times, the only difference I found is that some containers are better than others. All the ones I have used work exactly the same.
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Cholmondley Farquarr
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Re: Polcore
Well, quite.
Cyanoacrylate
Viscosity
Curing time
Application method
Strength
...and price!
I have an aversion to being stuck with the manufacture's (pricey) sundries, whether it be printer cartridges or carpet cleaner, they can get you!
Chap at Mainline Mouldings, quite possibly the poster above, said that Polcore adhesive was 'Indusrtrial Grade' Super Glue, but at £20.00 a bottle, I shall be looking around.
Having said that, as instigator of the Polcore thread, I reckon I'll be getting a free bottle with my first order!
Cyanoacrylate
Viscosity
Curing time
Application method
Strength
...and price!
I have an aversion to being stuck with the manufacture's (pricey) sundries, whether it be printer cartridges or carpet cleaner, they can get you!
Chap at Mainline Mouldings, quite possibly the poster above, said that Polcore adhesive was 'Indusrtrial Grade' Super Glue, but at £20.00 a bottle, I shall be looking around.
Having said that, as instigator of the Polcore thread, I reckon I'll be getting a free bottle with my first order!
Bodget Floggit & Scarper
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Nigel Nobody
Re: Polcore
From the research I have done viscosity affects curing time so they are really one and the same thing.
Application method? I didn't know there was any other way that bung it on and hold the two pieces together until the glue goes off.
Strength? Can you elaborate please. Cyanoacrylate is cyanoacrylate isn't it? Industrial grade super glue? I'd like to know more about that too please.
I just bought a couple of bottles that cost me $20 each, but they have a lot of glue in them and it will work out much cheaper than those little $2 tubes and it is much easier to use from the bottles than the tubes. Perhaps price is related to quantity and the brand label on the package. I don't reckon it has much to do with the glue itself.
Application method? I didn't know there was any other way that bung it on and hold the two pieces together until the glue goes off.
Strength? Can you elaborate please. Cyanoacrylate is cyanoacrylate isn't it? Industrial grade super glue? I'd like to know more about that too please.
I just bought a couple of bottles that cost me $20 each, but they have a lot of glue in them and it will work out much cheaper than those little $2 tubes and it is much easier to use from the bottles than the tubes. Perhaps price is related to quantity and the brand label on the package. I don't reckon it has much to do with the glue itself.