Am I one of those?

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Roboframer

Re: Am I one of those?

Post by Roboframer »

gesso wrote:Think it would make more sense to focus on the opening post and what problems this guy had with them
Freedom of speech as it suits eh!
gesso wrote: ............... my opinion is based on experience as is yours and equally valid.
Cobblers! Mine is valid as it is current - yours is invalid as you don't know the company any more. I wouldn't recognise my own from 7 years ago and I'd hope that would apply to any business.
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Re: Am I one of those?

Post by gesso »

Your opinion is valid, while others have an opinion ...but then again seams like theirs isnt valid for what ever reason you convince yourself of . Thats ok I'm a big boy
The reasons I stopped using this supplier was for the same as the postee.. some of us listen to other framers and take note.
while others just go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on. :head: and on and on and on and on!
sleep well!
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Roboframer

Re: Am I one of those?

Post by Roboframer »

That's not very fair is it - just a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.

I had no need to convince myself of anything - you stated you don't deal with Simons, :head:

I stated that that being the case you weren't really qualified to comment on current levels of service from personal experience :roll: - you can't argue with that so you take a pop instead :punch: - and it's just SOOOO unfair because I'm not such a big boy - I'm sensitive :giggle:

No-ones denying you had just cause for dumping D&J - 7 years ago - and no-one's denying Mike has just cause now, in his position I might do the same. But if the same thing that happened to Mike happened to me right now, after about 12 years with Simons, I probably wouldn't.
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Re: Am I one of those?

Post by MITREMAN »

Hi Gesso,
No supplier has a hold on me, :shock: I choose who I buy from not even my brothers company.
I select my products on quality, and service and of course price.

Every framer has a choice to choose who they deal with and say how they feel about their dealings good or bad. :head: :head:

I can understand framers having bad dealings and staying away from a company that’s their choice. :x

I expect you and other people would go through all the normal complaint methods, Phone calls, e-Mail, letters, calling the rep in. :xcomputer:

:idea:
The best thing I have always found is go to the top man.


If you still get no joy and the company makes no effort to keep your business :Slap: , walk away and try someone new.

After years of not using a company, some may give a company another go (Management might change, people come and go, things could be different?

When I wrote about someone being libel, this was just an extreme example.

As I said before many threads get a bit heated from time to time. Ok we are all adults and sometimes it a bit of fun, my point was where suppliers get involved and someone says something detrimental about another company and someone complains………Zap! :cry: And the threads gone and nobody learns from the experience, that’s why I feel keeping bad press to the members area was more fitting.

Yes I know it’s a Framers Forum and its mainly framers comments which I respect, but we all know suppliers read the threads, hopefully they learn how people feel and are able to respond. :|

I would just hate to think as a thread on any subject gets going and another supplier was to say run down my brothers company. As I wouldn’t expect my brother as a professional to rant back, ask for the thread to be removed if he felt so strongly, yes.

By all means have a moan; sometimes getting things of our chest dose us good and hopefully we are able to put things right by the way we have learnt from others.

Regards

MITREMAN :)
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Re: Am I one of those?

Post by Not your average framer »

I use Simons as a regular supplier and I'm very pleased with how well they look after me. I find that they're a good company to deal with, the staff and the management are very friendly and helpful.

There is one point which has not been mentioned here. Six or seven years ago, Daniel Simons was not running the company, but now he is and when he took over running the company he started making big and worthwhile changes to how the company looks after it's customers.

Daniel worked very hard at getting things right and now after reading this thread, I expect Daniel must be wondering what he has to do, to please some people! If you have not been ordering from Simons for the last six or seven years then perhaps you should give them another try. You might be pleasantly surprised!
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Re: Am I one of those?

Post by gesso »

WelshFramer wrote: I ordered 200 foot and paid for overnight delivery. It hasn't arrived. I phoned Simons and was told that it was with the carrier and once they'd given it to the carrier it wasn't their problem.



When I complained to whoever answered the phone at Simons that I had tried to order this so many times and every time there had been a problem, she said that happened to some of their customers. They had some customers for whom orders always went wrong and I must be one of those.

Don't know this guy D Simons but they still have or are starting to have the same problem that made me walk ( arrogant, poor customer services in their sales department) and that's why my point is valid no matter how long its been since I last ordered......
BEEN THERE DONE THAT!
For a rep of the company to say this wasn't their problem is shameful and completely incorrect. If I'm right in thinking that WF hasn't paid the courier directly and Simonds have billed for the overnight then it's down to them..and compensation is due.

Of course these may be isolated cases and all suppliers let customers down from time to time we are all only human. I have talked many times to owners of moulding supply companies and their stories of courier-trouble made the hairs on my neck stand on end, I've been to courier stations and witnessed first-hand how packages have been handled explaining why more than a few Ive received have had to be sent back....such is life......but if your not looking after your customers then why should they come back?
I would imagine that we all understand the basic principle of business, take care of your customers they give you money!

So don't prompt me to go down that road again. I am only one customer in Thousands that have dealt with this supplier, My business manages very well without them and I am delighted with the regular suppliers I have ,Trusting them to deliver when they say they will and sorting any problems that arise quickly and to both mine and my customers satisfaction. If at anytime I came across this issue with any of these Then I would have to look again at the arrangement, as would any of my customers with me.
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Re: Am I one of those?

Post by gesso »

Roboframer wrote:



I stated that that being the case you weren't really qualified to comment on current levels of service from personal experience :roll: - you

I took WF's experience as a comment on current levels of service he had experienced because it had recently happened ...that's why he'd posted .....and my comment as past experience with them, thats why I posted! Am I missing something here?
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Re: Am I one of those?

Post by barefaced framer »

It would be nice to see a comment from someone from Simons on this issue.

Any takers :?:
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Re: Am I one of those?

Post by gesso »

Roboframer wrote:
Cobblers! Mine is valid as it is current - yours is invalid as you don't know the company any more. I wouldn't recognise my own from 7 years ago and I'd hope that would apply to any business.

It's okay The Framing God has enlightened us all with his words of wisdom, directly from Robo-topia.
We should all now go back to our morso's and get back to work.
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Re: Am I one of those?

Post by Davie »

I use Simons quite a lot. ordering up to a couple of thousand feet at a time, and i normally want it overnight, I can say it usually does arrive, although the carriers sometimes screw up. The only real niggle i have with them is that their computor system is not up to speed and they wont automatically tell you if its in or out of stock, I would get a call hours later to say sorry this, that and the other is out Grrr.....On the whole they have been excellent to deal with and not any differant to any other supplier. Arquadia is also very good as is lopez although i wish they had a uk distribution centre, mainline is first class as well but the choices are their for everyone to make up their own mind......Suck it and see!
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Re: Am I one of those?

Post by WelshFramer »

I guess what upset me the most was that, after having all those failed attempts at getting the moulding, being told that that happens to some customers. An apology and/or an offer of a refund would have been more appropriate and would probably have meant I wouldn't have wanted to start this thread.

We all screw up sometimes. Even I screw up sometimes. But when I do, I offer profuse apologies and normally offer the customer a discount for their inconvenience. I've even been known to give a customer a framing job free when I've missed a promised delivery date (not often but it has happened a couple of times). Seems to me it's just basic customer relations if I want them to come back again.

Anyway, the moulding turned up a day late. Having worked late the previous evening staining and lime waxing pine moulding to look like the moulding I needed, I refused to accept the delivery. So now I'll sit back and wait to see if Simons contact me about it.
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Re: Am I one of those?

Post by Steve N »

Even though I have only been running my own business since November last year, I have dealt with Simons for the last 18 years, while working for other framers. I have found that they have improved over the last 7 or 8 years, and they are my number one supplier, they do sort out any problems quick ( that' what I find, others may disagree) . Some of Simons delivery problems, are the carrier they use, I've heard that some of their depots are quite bad, and that's why some of Simons customers have a real problem with deliveries, I've stopped looking in the back of the lorry that delivers to me, parcels all over the place, the driver walking over everything, he even had the nerve to ask me if I ever sent anything out, could he take a business card for their sales department!
There are some suppliers I will not entertain, one which when I worked for 2 other framers tried to get some business from us, could not even get the sample we asked for to us, when they did arrive most of them were wrong, another has a gives contract framers forward ordering status ( as soon as a out of stock item comes in , it's put aside for them, even if they do not want it all right away) so, no one else can order it.
I think we all have some suppliers we would do business with, others we would not, we may not all agree, it's the same with any other type of supplier, be it in framing, mobile phones networks or power suppliers, we all have our own opinions and stories.
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Re: Am I one of those?

Post by Not your average framer »

Steve N wrote:another has a gives contract framers forward ordering status ( as soon as a out of stock item comes in , it's put aside for them, even if they do not want it all right away) so, no one else can order it.
I think that you will find that quite a lot of companies will offer the same service if you are a big enough customer. Large volume customers expect special treatment and can always take their business elsewhere. Suppliers often can't always afford to say no!
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Re: Am I one of those?

Post by Dave »

I'm not going to get into a long supplier bashing. Not sure whether it's appropriate or not, but I certainly wouldn't thank anybody for doing it to me on the web, but heh, free speech and all that. All I will say is that I tried and gave up with them. It's a huge shame as some of their mouldings appeared to be very good value.

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Re: Am I one of those?

Post by DSimons »

I would like to take the opportunity to reply to some of the issues raised originally by Welsh Framer, and before replying to this thread, I took the time to look into this particular situation. Also, I tracked him down and spoke to him at great length.

Firstly, and perhaps the most important point, is that Welsh Framer has said that one of our telephonists had suggested that once any shipment leaves our warehouse, "it is no longer Simons's problem". I was absolutely astounded to hear that a member of my staff had even suggested those words. They would be straight into a "meeting" with me if I did discover who it was. Unfortunately, an investigation within my office and with the customer, failed to confirm who the alleged person was. Saying that, I must add, when I went in depth into a conversation with the Welsh Framer, he stated that he may have perhaps misinterpreted what was said. I feel that these days we generally have a good set of telephonists, which makes these comments all the more surprising for myself personally.

Secondly, regarding tuffnells deliveries. Welsh Framer has admitted to me that he is in a remote location within the Welsh Mountains. Also, that he has had other carriers within his area that also has trouble delivering to him on a next day basis. Saying that an investigation by us has suggested that the carriers tried to deliver to him next day anyway but he was not in. He says that this is not true, so I am currently taking this up with them as we speak.

Therefore, to use an old cliche, there are 2 sides to every story. If anything is really serious, I am personally only an e-mail or telephone call away, and I have a whole team of people that can deal with all day to day enquiries. Just a little boast to finish off - we are a company which has been establised for over 100 years, we have won the Queen's Award For Export achievement for our Emafyl product and was the first company in the world to sell polystyrene mouldings, we have the best value for money products on the market for all picture framing supplies, we are committed to improving customer services at all times, and have a sales team on the road of 12 people covering the length and breadth of the country.

Thank you.

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Re: Am I one of those?

Post by birdman »

Daniel it is good of you to put your head above the paraphet and hopefully you have sorted out Welsh Framers concerns. But you also need to take note of the level of general dissatisfaction expressed both here on the forum and privately elsewhere.

A customer survey would not go amiss so that you can guage what your customers actually think rather than what you or your staff think we think.

For a start a lot would criticise the lack of a decent website and online ordering system and that includes me. Quote from your website:

This website continues the many developments taking place at Simons, to ensure we remain in the forefront of the UK framing market. Other improvements will include: -

A new computerised ordering system.


I mention it every chance I get when I see our local rep. The fact that he cannot tell me what is in stock without having to phone is frustrating to say the least and when it doesn't arrive because it's not in stock then you should understand that blood pressures rise.

Make use of email to keep customers up to date and please try and improve the issue of credit notes, which can take forever and require constant chasing up.

Ask me and your other customers what frustrates us and you may then find as you fix those things that our level of satisfaction brings you even more customers.

I would term myself a "reasonably happy" customer but there is certainly much more you could do to make me ecstatic.

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Re: Am I one of those?

Post by WelshFramer »

I was impressed that Daniel took the trouble to phone me and put his side of the story. I had decided not to order anything more from them but have now changed my mind and will have another go.

They do some really good mouldings so not ordering from them would have inconvenienced me quite a bit. Let's see how it goes.

And let's hope Daniel continues frequenting the forum. I'm sure contributions from manufacturers and distributors are beneficial to both sides of the discussion.

On a positive note, has anyone tried Simons' BACK/010? It's not in the price list I have but it is a superb backing board at a bargain price. I've now decided to use nothing else. One side is white and, they say, conservation quality, while the other side is a waxy brown. Even though it feels waxy to the touch, lick-and-stick brown paper tape seems to stick to it really well.

I also used it yesterday for packing a frame with glass that was being posted - haven't heard yet whether or not it arrived safely.
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Re: Am I one of those?

Post by prospero »

At one time you had to get on bended knees to get samples from Simons. These days I seem to get them whether I want them or not. :lol: I've had samples of new stuff I have already ordered in lengths. Even got a huge jiffy-bag full one morning. Turned out it wasn't meant for me but WTH. :P
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Re: Am I one of those?

Post by Roboframer »

By 'samples' do you mean small lengths (how long?) or corners?
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Re: Am I one of those?

Post by prospero »

About 10" bits.
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