Am I one of those?

[WelshFramer]

A rep from Simons came to see me recently and urged me to order more stuff directly from his company.

So I ordered 100 ft of moudling and paid extra for overnight delivery. They sent 30 ft in short lengths - the longest was 5 foot.

I asked the rep to send a duplicate order but he forgot and went on holiday.

So I tried ordering it again and was told that it was out of stock and they wouldn't put it on back order because the order was too small.

It's now in stock again so, yesterday, I ordered 200 foot and paid for overnight delivery. It hasn't arrived. I phoned Simons and was told that it was with the carrier and once they'd given it to the carrier it wasn't their problem.

Of course the reason I paid for overnight delivery was that the artist is collecting her paintings tomorrow for an exhibition that is being hung on Thursday. So I now have 6 oils to frame and no moulding to do them with. Looks like I'm going to have to spend the evening making plain wood frames and staining them.

When I complained to whoever answered the phone at Simons that I had tried to order this so many times and every time there had been a problem, she said that happened to some of their customers. They had some customers for whom orders always went wrong and I must be one of those. Can't imagine why those people are still customers.

Guess I must be one of those - but not much longer.

[WelshFramer]

Something I forgot to mention. This is the first job for this artist who says she's got lots more stuff that needs framing.

Not just that. She's a member of a group of artists. There's about 10 of them. A month ago I went to see them to advertise my framing. This is the first job from the group.

[framejunkie]

she said that happened to some of their customers.

Please be assured that its not personal.

Can't imagine why those people are still customers. Guess I must be one of those - but not much longer.

I can sympathise. I'm a mile from them, and I haven't used them for about 7 years, which is crazy( and bad for my carbon footprint), but i just can't work with them.

She's a member of a group of artists. There's about 10 of them.

Ain't it always that way?

[WelshFramer]

Well, at least I shall have the pleasure of refusing to accept delivery if the order turns up tomorrow.

[Nigel Nobody]

If it were me, all their samples would be in the rubbish by now!

[Roboframer]

Ask to be put through to your area sales manager - name in front of the catalogue, or even to Daniel Simons himself.

Maybe it's a postcode thing but I've not had a problem with Simons for years, regards service or quality, well, bar the fact that I'm the last drop on the Tuffnels run and get my orders when I'm closing, but that's not Simons' fault.

Last time I tried a backorder with them I think it was £300 minimum, or maybe 300 ft of that particular moulding. Usually when they say something will be in stock on such and such a date, it is, unlike some other suppliers who give you a date, then another, then another and then say it did come in but all went out on backorder, and as I never wanted the minium back order amount - tough - try this other date 3 months hence.

But now I'm a Picture Framing God I have the power of forgiveness anyway!

[MITREMAN]

Hi Follow Framers,
I have always found Aqadia a good and reliable moulding company to deal with.
They have Reps covering the country.

If you contact Steve Burke Sales Manager Tel 01234 852777
http://www.arqadia.co.uk
He will be able to help you, he can a arrange a rep to call, samples or a catolouge and advise on mouldings selling in your area

There mountboard is also very good to work with and they have a good website.

Give them a go I don't think you will be dissapointed in there service.

As for artist groups keep trying them, don't give up , I have found that out of a small group you usuallly get one or two who will spend and will keep giving you repeat orders.

Also try local embroidery groups they like a good quality job.

Find them in your local community centres offer to do a talk or demo take alomg samples and offer your service.

What they do like is ready made frames, take a box full each time you visit ready priced, they love square frames too from 3x3 to 12x 12inches. So make up make all your off cuts into standard sizes, don't go bigger than A4 or 10x12 save that for a special orders.

Also take some off-cuts of mountboard in bags and sell them.

Show them a correctly laced taperstry (out of the frame) and advise on conservation framing, many people in these groups like to do them as presents, but don't always pay for the framing, so make a discount leaflet for them to pass onto their customer and come direct to you.

When showing them mouldings make sure you choose mouldings with a good rebate depth.

Happy framing and may life be easy
MITREMAN

[Bagpuss]

My heart went out to you when I read your post, as someone who has only just gone "full-time" as a framer, my bowels started to twitch a bit when I read about your problems with Simons.

I don't do the sort of volumes that you do but I have used Simons for ages and have never had problems like you've described. Having said that in the last couple of weeks I have had a couple of order problems but this may be explained by them being short staffed with people on holiday ( I know the lovely Laverne is away at the moment ). I always e-mail Daniel, he does seem to run the show there.

I guess until I experience similar problems I will stay with Simons but I can fully understand your frustration

All the best,

Bagpuss

[gesso]

In the twenty odd years I've known them this has always been a problem. when I worked for other companies I put up with it ...as soon as I started my own I dumped them and haven't looked back, there are other suppliers out there with the same mouldings (most of the time better ones too) don't waste your time with them.

[Roboframer]

Simons give me the least stock and picking error problems of any of my suppliers, in fact I don't remember the last picking error. A lot of the time the stuff comes next day without asking or paying for it and pretty much always in good condition.

They may well have mouldings others do, but you can bet they'll knock spots off the price, but they also have mouldings others don't do (well, none of my other suppliers anyway)

Like their catalogue and price list, you have to find your way around them; it's not really difficult, but once you have, it's worth it. That's my experience and must be a lot of others' too because they are still the UK framing giant. I heard a story once, dunno if it's true, that they were not going to do the Spring Fair one year and the organisers gave them the stand for a song - otherwise attendance would have been seriously affected.

Next to the FATG Simons get the most bashing here, maybe supplier-bashing should be kept to the Members only forum?

[MITREMAN]

I have to agree with Robo we all have our favorite suppliers and we all proberly have had good experience and bad with others.

Its good to recommenend suppliers and other framers thats what helps our trade.

But as Robo points out, I think we should keep supplier bashing to the members only forum if needed at all?

Robo wrote..

Next to the FATG Simons get the most bashing here, maybe supplier-bashing should be kept to the Members only forum?

MITREMAN

[gesso]

If readers don't agree with whats been written, then by all means put forward an opposing point of view or move on
but start saying where these should be posted is asking for trouble.
If people have a grievance
with suppliers then why shouldn't they voice their opinion...anywhere we like? Some say bashing others will point out that from experience this is what we've concluded.

[MITREMAN]

Hi Gesso,
I hear what you say, I do agree on the forum we should have a freedom of speech and share our bad experences, but by keeping it to the members area we are not upsetting suppliers ( you might say they will buck ther ideas up if read?) with things that can get out of hand and in a worse case someone getting sued.

Also by keeping it to this area when we are discussing bad service from suppliers we have less chance of a thread being deleted by our Moderator, which has happened many times in the past, it only takes one person to complain and the thread gets pulled.

Just my view

MITREMAN

[gesso]

What have these suppliers got over you that you don't want them upset? If I get a bad service from someone I'll say something
if it comes up and posters refer to it I'll say I don't like them and I'm sure others will say why they do! what's wrong with that?
Same with any other organization, company, product, it isn't libelous not to like a company. no ones saying they've been robbed.
If WF says he's been let down and I believe him, then he has EVERY right to post ....Anywhere on here.. or is this forum now sponsored by suppliers? last time I looked it was the Framers Forum. " Forum for Picture Framers and Picture Framing Issues" and not members only either or I'll switch my avatar back to ;

untitled.jpg (20.08 KiB) Viewed 7433 times

Members indeed!

[Roboframer]

It was a suggestion/question; not a demand.

Non-registered people reading open forums wanting to take on their first suppliers or add to their existing ones can be influenced. OK - so could they be if they took the time to register and it was all in MO.

A statement like 'don't waste your time with them' isn't very fair from a successful framer who does not deal with the company anymore. You have no recent experience of them.

If you (any reader) have not tried them - why not go along to the spring fair - take a look at the size of their stand compared to others' accept the offer of coffee and biccys and if you see what you like, give 'em a try.

If your your first orders get sent to the wrong address, turn up smashed, the wrong stuff etc etc etc and they aren't bothered - fine. Doubt it though - not these days, but similar to what happened in the first post of this thread can happen with many suppliers.

[gesso]

Non reg people are'nt sheep they can look at All the comments and decide for themselves

My experience with them was based on seven years. No I haven't been back for six or seven years, why should I give my business to a company that I had many bad experiences with. I have no loyalty to anyone...... its business.
there are other suppliers and I have had nothing bad happen with those.

Im not sure What's the size of their stand got to do with anything?

That's my point they were'nt bothered ...ever..

That's my story

As I said you've had a good experience Ive had a bad one ..I went back tried again...another bad one!
maybe you've had one too many of their biccies and now they've got you...the oldest trick in the book!

[kev@frames]

We am one of they too....

we had ongoing serious problems with simons several years ago and have not dealt with them since.
However in fairness to the products, they have a lot of good useful stuff.

we buy any simons mouldings (and arquadia, enrique lopez etc) all from Ventons. Weekly van, no delivery charges, ultra reliable, helpful, seldom get an order wrong.

So my advice if you are unhappy with simons service, or cant get to grips with the way they work, but like the products, is to buy simons products from your usual wholesaler instead, and still get the product you want. I would guess simons will still be happy as they selling the product (via the wholesaler) and the only person dipping out in these circumstances would be the rep, which is a real shame in some cases (for example the local simons rep for our area is a top bloke and I would be more than happy giving him the business, however we have absolutely no reason at all, including price, to shift from our existing supplier of simons products).

Simons are a big company, and as we all know, specially when we are doing a lot of transactions regularly, you rarely hear happy customers, and the unhappy customers tend to shout longest and loudest.

In my case I ranted about simons for ten years which probably shows how they p*ssed me off. But I cant really fault any of their products.

I'd go as far as to say give them a try, but have a plan B, if you get let down you can always return to your original suppliers.

Just as an aside I sometimes wonder why some companies deal direct at all with frame shops when there are such good regional wholesalers about who can reliably distribute their products.

[Roboframer]

Non reg people are'nt sheep they can look at All the comments and decide for themselves.

Glad you agree that they can be influenced.

........ No I haven't been back for six or seven years..........

Yet you feel qualified to say they are (still) a waste of time?

Im not sure What's the size of their stand got to do with anything?

First impressions? - Impressed the frell out of me first time I clapped eyes on it - and what I found in it innit!

Not trying to convert you - this is all just for the benefit of anyone reading.

[gesso]

Think it would make more sense to focus on the opening post and what problems this guy had with them
then to try and make issues out of my reply. We ALL have a right to post up here ....again my opinion is based on experience
as is yours and equally valid.I'm not going to argue the toss about a company that has a record with other framers
I'm happy for you that your obviously NOT one of those!

[Bill Henry]

Clearly, with my geographic location I’ve never dealt with Simons.

Where I am located there are several manufacturers and distributors with whom I can deal. In the last several months I have seen, perhaps, a dozen or so sales representatives from various companies. All of them (like we retailers) are noticing that their sales have declined by as much as 25% over the past year. Like us, they are hurting, too.

Since distributors are all competing with each other with more or less the same products, price is generally not too big an issue, nor will it get in the way of most purchasing decisions for me.

The big difference is customer service.

What strikes me as odd is that those companies who have the reputation for lousy customer relations don’t believe that correcting it is a major priority. They either lack the will or the knowledge to do anything about it.

On more than one occasion I have dropped carrying a line of products because either the quality of the product is consistently bad (everyone goofs up once or twice and can be forgiven once or twice), or they make it seem like it is my fault for mismatched moulding, or they make me jump through hoops to get a replacement product.

With lousy service, they are cutting their own throats. They just don’t get it.