Saving time vs minimising material costs.

[Not your average framer]

I was originally trained to make use of as much scrap and left-overs as possible, such as when making packing out mounts, etc. This usually involves cutting odd bits to fit together, rather than just cutting the whole thing out of one piece and throwing away the bit which falls out of the middle.

Funnily enough and now we are in a recession, I just can't be bothered with all the messing around anymore and if the material cost is extra, then so be it.

Recently having increased my set-up to two Keencut mountcutters, one configured and calibrated for normal mounts and the older original Ulitmat now configured for face down reverse bevel cutting. I have started pushing reverse bevel mounts and mount slips much more than I used to and it's really quick and easy to do with dedicated mountcutter.

The only problem is I still have to mess around packing out behind the mount to make flush with the slip. So today I just decided "No more, I'm done with all that" and from now I will cut all those extra packing layer as mounts and dumpster the bits out of the middle.

I've even done this with foamcore board and correx. It's so easy, I should have done it this way years ago!

So who does it which way and why? Also any other examples of saving time by not trying to minimise material costs.

[Roboframer]

One big way to increase profit is to reduce material costs.

No way would I make a slip flush with an aperture cut from a board - and I'd say 70%+ of my stuff goes out with a mount slip/filet.

A sheet of 32x40 foam board will make four 20x16 mounts with fillets flush if you use your method.

Assuming a width of 3" - you'll get twenty six 3" strips sixteen inches long from that board - with which you could make six 20x16 mounts flush with - 50% more IOW.

If you buy jumbo foam board as I do (60x40) then you'd only be able to make the same six 20x16 mounts flush with your method as I would with a 32x40 sheet. Put those six 14x10 (+) fall outs together in a rectangle and look at what you're wasting.

Depending on how you lay them out, they'd either measure 42x20 or 30x28 (+)

[Nigel Nobody]

I use strips! I can't afford to throw away good material when it's easy and time effective to cut strips! It really doesn't take me more time to cut strips than to cut the whole thing from one piece!

Economy of materials is important to me, but I wouldn't use many short bits to make up the length required. Two pieces maximum for me!

What, Robo...you don't buy 8ft x 4ft boxes of foamboard??? They're a bit more economical!

[prospero]

Good question.

I always put a layer of scrap mb around the back of the aperture to make the fillet flush. I just apply d/s tape and slap on any bits of mb that are handy. To save time I don't cut them to size. I fit them up to the bevel and them slice off whatever is sticking out on the outside. Very quick. Then when the fillet is fitted I do the same with 3mm foamboard. Even tiny bits get used. Breaks my heart to cut into a full sheet.

[Keith Hewitt]

Hey guys,

I can pass on a great tip if you want to save material costs.
On my first visit to Vietnam - probably about 1995, I saw that all the framers were cutting mount board in a different way from other countries.
Instead of cutting a window, they cut four strips and beveled the 4 corners
But they were all doing it this way, and my comments that there is a better way met with disbelief. You are suggesting we cut a window - that's terribly wasteful . What are we supposed to do with the fallout? I gave up on my first visit - you have to learn to show empathy with Asians you are meeting for the first time.
But on subsequent visits little by little they started to change thanks to the diligent work of the new local distributor I had set up. http://www.artworldvn.com/index.html
I brought the owner to UK for 1 months training at a go ahead framer in Knutsford, and a few days at Danlist ( Morso) in Denmark.
And today 15 years later most Vietnamese framers now cut windows. Some still do it the old way and who are we to tell them its wrong.

[prospero]

I'm smiling at that Keith. I went to hang a painting in a big posh house late last year and I had a squizz at all the other pictures. One had a washline mount that had obviously been cut down from a bigger one and the corners mitred.

But the best one was an artist I met when I first started out. He would cut a mount, flip the dropout over and paint on the back. Because the bevels were going contra, the paintings fitted nicely back in the mounts.

[Roboframer]

To save time I don't cut them to size. I fit them up to the bevel and them slice off whatever is sticking out on the outside. Very quick. Then when the fillet is fitted I do the same with 3mm foamboard. (

I sometimes do that to make a stretched piece of needlework flush - it may not be exactly central at the back - there may be 3" one side 2 3/4" on another and then two sides at 2 1/2". I'll just cut strips to the largest width, fit them and cut off the excess face up. You do run the risk of pulling the blade along the face of the mount though, unless you use a straight edge as a guide and not the mount.

[Steve N]

A few years ago, where I used to work we had a contract with a local photographic company (PITA), we used to do at lest 20 framed photos a week with lip-slip/fillet mounts and we used the same method as NYAF, it was a lot quicker as we had a production line. One of the main reasons for this was I was on the top floor of the business cutting the mounts and the foam core, then I would take them down to the bottom floor, where the other framer was cutting the frames and lip-slips, he would cut the lip-slip to fit and then attach the foam core, while I went back upstairs and carry on cutting all the other mounts for the other 100 -200 other jobs we had in. Later when the other framer was on the middle floor where we assembled the work, he would attach the photographs before final assembly, we didn't have to waste time with offcuts, trimming them to size.
But saying all that, now when I have only 1 or 2 to do I use offcuts, it depends on your workload and setup.

Steve

[Not your average framer]

Has anyone else noticed how much their fixed overheads have increased during the last few years? If you work out how much an hour your overheads are costing you, then your sales figures need to increase enough to prevent these increasing overheads from eating into your profits.

Usually this means increasing your prices or getting more work out of the door, without significantly increasing your cost of sales. So can you earn more in the same time, by accepting a small increase in materials costs? The answer to that will depend upon how much you value your labour / time.

I still think that my original suggestion is a viable one, if the effective cost of the time saved can be arranged to significantly exceed the extra material cost.

[Nigel Nobody]

I believe that the time saving, which may amount to 1 or 2 minutes if anything, doesn't warrant wasting that much material.

[Roboframer]

Like I said in my example - you could be paying twice as much for a sheet of board (cost of jumbo foam board vv standard size) and getting the same out of it as someone paying half and that's just silly however much time it takes - and anyway - I reckon I can do it/it can be done FASTER in strips than in apertures.

from now I will cut all those extra packing layer as mounts and dumpster the bits out of the middle.

But if you do opt for the aperture method and throw away the fall outs (14 x 10 in my example) that's even sillier - they could be sold as they are - (we sell A4 and A3 foamboard in packs of 5) or put to a myriad of other uses which are charged for.

[Not your average framer]

I reckon I can do it/it can be done FASTER in strips than in apertures..

Hi John,

To be honest, any time saving when you are only packing out with one layer of mountboard would be marginal, but the moment you start talking about packing out several layers to make up for a bit more depth, it can really save a lot of time if each layer requires the same size and aperture.

But if you do opt for the aperture method and throw away the fall outs (14 x 10 in my example) that's even sillier - they could be sold as they are - (we sell A4 and A3 foamboard in packs of 5) or put to a myriad of other uses which are charged for.

If the fall-outs were of a worthwhile size, I would keep them for future use. Unfortunately my attempts to pack and sell my mount and foam board offcuts to customers are often not worth the bother. I can understand that a craft related business like yours can probably sell such offcuts with relative ease, sadly my business does not work like that.

[Roboframer]

Some slips take 4 ply to make flush, (well, one - that tiny 3mm one that Arqadia, Nielsen and Mainline sell) some take 8 ply, some take 3mm foam board and some take 5 mm foam board - I also stock 10mm foam board, but that's rarely used for making things flush; never slips.

If I have to use a combination of the above I'll still do it as quick with strips as I would with more than one board with an aperture, but I rarely need a combination - most slips can be made flush with one of the above.

You cut the outside size of the board and then cut an aperture (6 cuts) I cut strips and then cut them to size. Depending on the size of the mount and the size of the board I'm cutting the strips from, I could be doing it in 6 cuts too but 4 of them are by eye - no stops to set; no board to turn.

Yes I have a market for pre-sized foam board, but like I said, there are other uses. E.g. a 14x10 fall out would make a 20x14 mount flush in strips or could be used as a backing board in a RMF.

14 x 10 is close to my "just chuck it out" size (anything below A4) but that's for mount board. Foam board, apart from artcare foam board, is bought mainly to be used for flush-making, in strips - but seeing as I always have plenty of skinny artcare foam board offcuts about - they're used too.