Best way to Float Frame an oil on 9mm MDF

[JamesC]

I'm sure this forum has answered this question or one similar dozens of times but I'll carry on while trying to be brief.

Had a local artist brought in two oils on 9MM MDF and the biggest is about 50 x 40 cm. The sides are painted white and they do a lot the same size.

To keep costs down they want a float frame only slightly bigger (1-2 inches all around) with glass in the front to prevent the mountboard behind becoming dirty.

They would ideally like a bare wood moulding they can stain themselves to a mid-brown normally, but so it is versatile.

The picture is to be attached to the MDF backer and rear mountboard. They would prefer not to screw into the original artwork - instead to have batons stuck to the back which the screws go into (if necessary).

They want something quite cost effective because while these may sell for the order of £250-400 the gallery will take half and I imagine they take a fair while to paint. They have mentioned wanting sturdier 6mm MDF as the backer but I'm not sure if the normal 3mm will suffice. Obviously getting in 6mm MDF will be a bit of a pain for me and take time that may make it unworthwhile sorting out - I'll probably have to get it cut to size in small quantities.

Been looking for a cheap box frame/spacer combo and Lion seem to be a reasonable option but the obeche spacers seem a bit awkwardly sized i.e. the 19mm deep one would leave me a bit tight if I had to get a thick baton behind the MDF - may look too squashed up to the glass? The 38mm spacer is better perhaps but it will only fit easily into the extra deep rebate moulding by lion which is quite hefty at £5 a metre and then is tight still if I have to use 6mm backer. Also if I use Lion there's a £50 minimum order on mouldings and I tend to only use them for sundries.

I could use their spacers with an Arqadia, Simons or Mainline moulding (my other usual suppliers) but then I'd worry about matching the wood/rebate sizes etc. Nothing by Arqadia sticks out as doing the job well alone. My very experienced framer is on holiday and we don't often do stuff like this day-to-day so I'm a bit uncertain what to quote - we normally print photos and do standard poster framing up to now but I would like to build up a clientele of local artists too and widen the repertoire.

Anybody got any neat solutions tried and tested for either frame choice or mounting methods? I'm looking for minimum fuss i.e. no sticking extra rebates to the back of frames preferred. It would be great if I could somehow omit the spacer and stick the glass to the rebate and the backer to the back of the frame if there was one with a rear rebate. That way the inside wood definitely matches and no need to line out the sides.

Thanks for your help in advance.

[Nigel Nobody]

That's a very amusing start to the day. Everything about the artist is so typical of many artists down here.
1. The artist paints on something weird.
2. They want the framer to work a miracle with the design and construction and purchase out of the ordinary supplies to do it.
3. They want to stain the frame themselves (to save money)
4. They want the framer to work for almost nothing and charge them almost nothing, but accept that the gallery will take a huge percentage of the sale price.

My advice is -do not give in to the 'keep the price down' factor, if you decide to go ahead with this work. Charge for all the materials used and all the time it takes you.

We need to educate some artists and I've politely told a few that they need to paint their pictures on better quality, regular substrates so that it doesn't cost them a fortune to frame them in some non standard way with non standard materials. That either convinces them, or they go somewhere else and inflict anguish and loss of money on someone else!

[Roboframer]

Renoir and many others painted on wood panels and if MDF had been around in those days, they'd have gone for it bigtime.

Many artists I know paint on MDF, but it's nearly always primed and textured in a grid so it looks like canvas, some artists cover MDF, or ply, with butter muslin and then prime that. Renoir probably primed the wood panels.

The type of paint is basically what's on your doors, which are wood or MDF, and primed if the decorator knew what he was doing - and that, with regular, proper cleaning, lasts for years. Varnish that and it will last longer still. Seal the varnished thing behind spaced/sealed glass and it will probably last forever - as the Renoirs have without.

There are deep rebated profiles around with a groove to take glass - someone here has them specially milled, that would sort you. Up to you if you screw one side instead of pin it to make glass replacement easier/cheaper - and assuming any other framer realises that's how it's been done anyway. I'd just pin it - time - do it in one hit and give the customer what they want, after making sure that choice is an informed one

The backing of your choice (and I'd say 3mm MDF with mount board bonded to it, for the size/weight you are talking about, would be just fine) could then indeed be fixed to the back of the frame to maximise the rebate depth. The artwork is ON MDF so no problem at all with backing it with the same.

Sure there are 'better' backings available - but they would cost many times the price and any protection they offer would be wasted.

[JamesC]

I'm hoping the white sides of the MDF meant it was primed - but didn't like to open any more cans of worms and I've seen plenty of other work on hardboard etc and sometimes it's best just to let it be.

At least this artist is getting a decent-ish price for their work anyway and while I'm too young to have seen it here I've heard of artists who just escalate over the years and can almost sustain a framing company alone - that's why I'm quite keen to get a few more on board and this is a youngish artist just moved into the area but had a good base in Kent before apparently. They do work on canvas too I think.

Nigel you missed maybe a couple of points - they want to buy materials so that you can store them for them without adding any mark-up as they call them off. They haven't tried to pay me with a painting yet though

I had thought about the rebate in the frame for glass Robo but then I was trying to limit the number of times they would have to come in and pick stuff up etc and they can't stain it with the glass in. Also I thought fixing the MDF to the back without a rebate might not look that neat - as might not screwing one end in - nice idea that it is.

I'm thinking of asking them to buy the EDR from Lion with spacer, stain it, attach the spacer to the back as a baton then bring it in and I'll frame them at the normal hourly rate and pop the glass/mount in at standard rates. They can then keep the waste moulding.

I'm not making the maximum sale but I'm keeping it simple and they'll think I'm doing them a favour, which arguably I am.

[Nigel Nobody]

James,
It's commendable to do someone a favour, but never lose sight of the fact that you are doing framing to make money....aren't you? Sometimes artists will try to railroad us into giving up part of our profit so they can have it. I wonder if they would do the same thing for us? Not a chance!

Asking a customer to buy supplies from one of my suppliers and bring it in for me to work on would not happen in twelve million years. I buy the products I need and I will make a profit from them. As someone has said a couple of times before, you can't take your own fish to the fish and chips shop and get them to cook it and you can't take your own steak to a restaurant and ask them to cook it for you. Framing should be no different!

Artists will use framers as their own private charity shop......... if we let them! .........Not this little black duck!!!

[Not your average framer]

These people are time wasters, saving money for this sort of customer can be a lot of hard work for almost no profit.

I suggest that you price every job to make a proper hourly rate and don't lose too much sleep about the jobs you did not get, because someone else was cheaper.

Be the best, not the cheapest! You won't regret it!

[Framer Dave]

If I am reading correctly the artist wishes to have the panel float mounted, which is to say all edges exposed, on a background of mountboard or similar material. Yes?

I've had good success with this sort of thing by attaching strips of Velcro or similar hook-and-loop fastener to the back of the panel and then the mating strip to the background. It's quite easy, cost-effective and easily reversible. If you do this, do not use the self-adhesive variety. Sooner or later the adhesive will give way. Acrylic gel medium makes for a very nice adhesive: water-based, chemically stable and easy to work with.