Anyone know anything about fishing flies?

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Anyone know anything about fishing flies?

Post by Not your average framer » Sat 29 Apr, 2006 9:22 pm

Hi,
A customer has just asked me to quote for framing about 160 fishing flies, all have to be identified with titles. Guess how much I know about fishing flies - Not a lot! I've never even seen one before. Any clues please!
Cheers,
Mark

Roboframer

Post by Roboframer » Sun 30 Apr, 2006 12:03 am

Do you mean that the customer has 160 flies and does not have their names - you have to put a name to each one?

Screw THAT!

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Post by Not your average framer » Sun 30 Apr, 2006 9:39 pm

Hi John,

No, he does have the names, but he wants each fly in a separate mount window with it's name in a title box below. He's offered to print them out on labels for me. The problem is that I've no idea what's involved in framing them, so I'm wondering how much to quote. I like the idea of doing it, because it will look good in the photo album to show future customers.

I have a good source for getting computer cut mounts done and that's about as far as my thinking has got so far. Each fly will need to be accurately fixed in position, but how is this best done? I've yet to see one! I'm wondering if anyone out there has framed these before.
Cheers,
Mark

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Post by Coxby » Sun 30 Apr, 2006 10:21 pm

I framed 16 hand tied flies for a wedding present. The flies were arranged in rows with the title under each on a small 'reverse bevel' card using a period font like Edwardian Script. The flies were tied onto light green suedette using two pieces of black cotton; one around the 'eye' and one around the 'shank' near to the hook. The cotton tied off using a small button on the back of the mountboard backing.

To give depth to the piece, float a single or double mount off the backing suedette using foamex and maybe an additional aperture showing a title in the same period script, Salmon Flies was the one I used.

TIP: Get the client to arranged the flies and titles on the worktop and take a digital photo with your phone/camera. I only say this as after my client did the same and left, I picked up the board with blew a piece of fluff and all the flies off the board and onto the floor!
Edward Coxwell-Rogers

Roboframer

Post by Roboframer » Sun 30 Apr, 2006 11:02 pm

Coxby wrote:
TIP: Get the client to arranged the flies and titles on the worktop and take a digital photo with your phone/camera. I only say this as after my client did the same and left, I picked up the board with blew a piece of fluff and all the flies off the board and onto the floor!
HA HA HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

I'm laughing with you here Edward, not at you.

Roboframer

Post by Roboframer » Sun 30 Apr, 2006 11:45 pm

Oh Boy,

I've framed fishing flies before, four flies in separate apertures under a painting of a trout, a set of 20 salmon flies, with titles, in a box frame with no multiple apertures to worry about (I'm a calligrapher, I wrote the title under each fly in both cases)

But 160 flies, each in its own aperture AND a separate aperture for the title? 320 apertures? Hate to repeat myself but SCREW THAT! :lol:

OK here is what I would do - NOT let this customer escape!

Can you talk him/her around to having the box frame job with NO apertures and a label with title underneath?

No?

Get the CMC owner to cut the apertures! Most apertures I have ever cut by hand is 80 - for a set of phone cards. Customer liked it so much he brought back another 3 sets! This is one of the things that made me go for a CMC (pending)

Even when you have the 320 apertures, you have to space the flies from the glass, but the titles do not need that space/would look wrong with it, so really each fly would really look BETTER with the title in the same aperture. I think a separate window under each fly would be too much - makes the name as important as the skill of fly-tying maybe?.

My idea would be to attract the eye to the fly, the title would be an afterthought - a 'P.S.' Written quite small and/or faint, even a separate title box under the whole thing with all the titles listed, left to right. top to bottom.

If the customer would accept this, then I would put a tiny mount fillet (slip) around each aperture to help wth spacing and look the dogs whotsits - if a CMC is cutting these apertures then go for reverse bevels, by hand, don't use a dark mount and use normal bevels.

Albor mount slips are the thinnest, available from Arqadia, Nielsen, Mainline and Euro Mouldings (Nielsen are cheapest)

As for fixing in place, the problem with stitching is hiding the needle holes, I would not use the eye of the hook unless it was covered with feathers.

Use wherever IS covered and use either button thread in corresponding colours or 2lb breaking strain fishing line.

At least 320 stitches ..... is there a good quick-fix tool - would the 'attach eze' gun work on this?

Another thing I'd do - GRUMBLE IT - register on the grumble if you are not already. You will get a lot of different ideas - quickly, tell them ROBOFRAMER sent you! (UK's senior grumbler, 8) don't you know)

No disrespect to this forum.

I have searched on The Grumble for this and not come up with anything so I think you will get an excellent response, and FAST!

PS or I could copy the whole thread to The Grumble so it comes up in my name if you'd like.

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Post by absolute framing » Mon 01 May, 2006 4:00 am

hi

for pricing in individeual windows i would charge €330 (£220) before frame, mount etc. This sounds like a lot, but i reality it would justify the labour. Without individual appeture mounting i would charge a little less... £200 + frame etc..... a lot of labour. if they wont pay it, who else would do such a cumberson job!!

Yours invFraming,

Steve

osgood

Flies

Post by osgood » Mon 01 May, 2006 6:24 am

Roboframer wrote:Oh Boy,
OK here is what I would do - NOT let this customer escape!

Can you talk him/her around to having the box frame job with NO apertures and a label with title underneath?
John,
I agree with the first statement above.

I disgaree with the second. It's my opinion that you should always try to upsell to a customer so that you can increase the value of the job. If the customer voluntarily wants a more expensive job, give him what he wants and take his money and do not let him get away!
------------------------------
NYAF,
The backing that the flies are mounted on can be spaced away from the mat and glass and the labels can be placed normally under the opening in the mat. It will take some time, but the customer will be paying for your time.
-------------------------------
I have a device that is the same as 'attach ez' and I doubt that it could be used for attaching flies. Stitching is what I would be doing!

I would also not give a fixed quote for this. I would give a fixed quote for everything except the stitching of the flies and an hourly rate for that, with a rough estimate of time. And explain that it is "rough".

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Post by Not your average framer » Mon 01 May, 2006 5:43 pm

Hi,

I've been working out some rough measurements and how to do things and putting 160 flies in one frame is looking a bit crazy. The customer is happy to have them in several frames, so I will split them between probably four frames. I'm still thinking of individual CMC cut mount apertures for each fly, but like Roboframer I am realising that title apertures would look too cluttered.

I've had a look on the web for info on fishing flies which has helped with thinking about fixings. At the moment I am hoping to mount them onto a sheet of mountboard with accurately spaced vertical cuts done by CMC. My intention being to fold a short piece of clear polyester or mylar tape around the shank of each hook, (which I hope will not be easily visible), then feed the tape through the appropiate vertical cut and secure it behind. I am beginning to think that this job is going to be very fiddly to do and the time needed to do this job is likely to be considerable. Fortunately, the customer has left the choice of materials to me, which will help a lot. Currently, I am thinking of quoting at least £400.

The customer is a good one, so I don't intend letting him go elsewhere!

My thanks to Roboframer for suggesting that I look at the Grumble, I will check it out later today.
Cheers,
Mark

Roboframer

Post by Roboframer » Tue 02 May, 2006 7:42 pm

4 frames, that's much better!

By suggesting a box frame with no apertures I wasn't trying to talk you into selling down, but if I'm selling up it will be to something I can do myself and not sub out, secondly it won't be just for the sake of selling up, it will be to primarily make the thing look better.

The trouble with a large amount of small apertures with spacing is that only so many can be at eye level; some you will be looking down into, some you will be looking up into. With one big aperture you don't have that problem. May be less of a problem with 4 smaller frames, but that is still 40 apertures per.

It's a case of making the customer's choice an informed one, personally I would suggest one large aperture in a sunken mount, lined with the same colour mountboard as the aperture, and backed with a contrasting or complimentary colour. I'd maybe go for a frame with a matching mount slip.

Post a piccy when done, won't you Mark.

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Post by Not your average framer » Tue 02 May, 2006 8:01 pm

Hi,

Well, it's a funny old world! (To quote Dixon of Dock Green). Oh, dear - Am I really getting that old?

Today an old workmate who I haven't seen or heard of for something like twenty to thirty years walks into my framing shop. We're both looking at each other trying to figure out if we know each other, (We are both a lot older!). To cut a long story short - during conversation it turns out that he has the solution to framing the fishing flies.

He is now retired, but had been selling costume jewellry at open air markets until recently. It turns out that he has some unused suedette lined jewellry trays which will fit behind the multi-aperture mounts and he has special clips to fit the trays which will hold the flies in place. They're even made to take special snap-in labels which he has too!

I haven't seen them yet, but they sound like just what I need. I'm hoping to find out where you get them from.
Cheers,
Mark

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Post by Not your average framer » Tue 02 May, 2006 8:14 pm

Hi Roboframer,

We were both preparing our postings at the same time! Unfortunately, I don't currently have the means to up-load pics to the web, but assuming I get the job I should be able to email you one instead.

My current internet account does not have web space with it and I would need to find out how to do it! However, Freeserve it appears are not going to be free much longer. So if I soon have to pay, I may decide to go for broadband and some web-space too!
Cheers,
Mark

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Post by John » Tue 02 May, 2006 8:25 pm

In the meantime Mark, let me know if there is any pictures that you would like to post, they can be given a little space on the forum site.

Roboframer

Post by Roboframer » Tue 02 May, 2006 8:45 pm

You should still be able to use the services of a free image hosting service such as this.

http://photobucket.com/

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Post by Not your average framer » Tue 02 May, 2006 9:19 pm

Thanks John,

I've had a look at photobucket and learnt a lot.
Cheers,
Mark

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Post by Not your average framer » Fri 05 May, 2006 9:16 pm

Hi,

I got the job, but the customer is putting in the flies himself and it's now a cabinet with two doors. Did I miss something somewhere?
Cheers,
Mark

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