Thinking out loud

Discuss Picture Framing topics.
Everybody welcome.
Roboframer

Post by Roboframer » Thu 05 Oct, 2006 12:05 am

Well, if you want diversification she definitely could!

She deals with about 40 companies to my 10 (plus some now-and-agains on both sides) and it makes me realise how lucky we are in the framing world regards delivery times and customer service.

Just for example - one HUGE company on the giftware side - give them a carriage paid order - it arrives over the next month a bit a day. Slight exaggeration but e.g. one small box one day, another huge one the next, nothing for a week then another set of large boxes, 2 days later a poxy little thing. Then 2 weeks later the back orders arrive in the same manner.

Some companies take 10 days to get stuff from their shelves to ours, whereas Nielsen or Arqadia can MAKE something and get it to me next day!

Then there is what you find inside these boxes - Mrs Robo has got to the point with acouple of companies, where she opens the first box and starts checking against the delivery note, if she comes across ONE item missing or incorrect she stops checking, seals the box and and gets the lot returned.

She is an extremely canny buyer and "don't take no old crap off no-one"!

She comes into her own with direct marketting phone calls!

Framing Norah
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Post by Framing Norah » Thu 05 Oct, 2006 8:25 am

I like markw's idea of an article, and I'm sure that Robo could put together an entertaining and informative piece about fora and what a great resource they can be for us framers. Though, I doubt if there are many framers with Internet access who are unaware of this forum, after all, the forum will pop up when a few framing terms are typed into a search engine, so don't expect a flood of new members as a result of a single article.

I would be delighted to be wrong on this.

Also, be careful with viewing figures, they just tell the number of times that a particular thread has been opened and displayed by a web browser, and is not the number of individuals, let alone framers, who have viewed it. There is an ever present background of surfers who accidentally stumbled on the site, and others who troll through the Internet looking for vulnerabilities and ways to exploit and do harm. Sometimes a particular combination of words in a thread causes it to be picked up by people searching for something totally unrelated.
FN

Dermot

Post by Dermot » Thu 05 Oct, 2006 12:49 pm

500+ viewings in 24 hours …………………….on a thread on a site like this I would think it extraordinary if many of those were accidental …………….possibly a few………….maybe Oh…………..I will be very over the top on the number and ………say 25 are accidental and I’m even finding it hard myself to accept that it could be that many accidental hits in 24 hours………………

My own site had 6 hits yesterday………….to make a comparison………

I love to know how many hits the FATG total site have had in that time…………..perhaps I will have a look late................... has anyone got the web address..........

markw

Post by markw » Thu 05 Oct, 2006 1:45 pm


Framing Norah
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Post by Framing Norah » Thu 05 Oct, 2006 2:04 pm

Dermot, your 'hit counter' if set correctly should be recording unique hits, in other words you should have had had six visitors to your site yesterday rather than one individual who opened the same page six times.

The view counter is a different animal. In response to an email sent to you, and all other contributors to this thread, you (and they) will view this message on the forum. [say 8 views]

Perhaps the others, while on, will have a potter about looking at other topics, then come back to this one to re-read in order to decide whether or not to make a contribution. [say 4 views]

You then post a reply, and preview a couple of times. [3 views]

Then you and a couple of other interested parties check back a few times to see if there has been any further activity. [say 6 views]

Each new post on a thread, with just a few contributors, can quite easily bump up the view count by another 20 - 25 or perhaps a lot more without the involvement of a single non- member.

So please let us not get too carried away by overrating the impact that our ramblings might be having on the wider framing community.
FN

Dermot

Post by Dermot » Thu 05 Oct, 2006 2:44 pm

I had 6 individual visitors to my site yesterday, I can even tell roughly where they were located……1 US…..2 UK 2 Ireland and 1 China

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Post by absolute framing » Thu 05 Oct, 2006 3:44 pm

Were going off topic, but here is my reading.

1071 Hits 25 posts

Each poster logs on for their post, and presumably to view each individual reply

25 x 25 = 625 Hits by Contributors

1071 - 625 = 446 Divided by 25 posts = 18 individuals - Non contributing viewers
(like Me)

Total unique viewers = 43 give or take

I have guessed this for quite a while , but was afraid it would rub some posters up the wrong way if i burst their bubble :!:

Cheers,

Stephen

Roboframer

Post by Roboframer » Thu 05 Oct, 2006 6:39 pm

Framing Norah wrote:I like markw's idea of an article, and I'm sure that Robo could put together an entertaining and informative piece about fora and what a great resource they can be for us framers. Though, I doubt if there are many framers with Internet access who are unaware of this forum, after all, the forum will pop up when a few framing terms are typed into a search engine, so don't expect a flood of new members as a result of a single article.

I would be delighted to be wrong on this.
Well I'd be glad to do that, but first this webpage with a covering letter.

Have you actually Googled UK Framers?

You get two suggestions and then it asks 'Did you mean farmers' So I added the word 'Forum' - Nothing - not on the first two pages anyway - that's because the URL does not mention it I suppose.

I continued with 'UK Framers discussion' and 'picture framers discussion/forum'

ZIP!

I never knew this site existed until someone on TFG pointed ne to it - I STILL could not find it then - I had to be sent the link.

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Post by Framing Norah » Thu 05 Oct, 2006 6:57 pm

stick

framers forum

into google.

It gets second place listing on the first page of results.

But what I was trying to say earlier is that the forum comes up often when searching for framing related stuff. I just can't imagine it being being missed by framers over the course of a few googles.
FN

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Post by Merlin » Thu 05 Oct, 2006 7:06 pm

Hi, my penny worth
Interesting discussion going on here. Yes, I agree WE know about the forum, because WE are using it.
Consider a NEWBIE coming into the picture framing world, and I do not wish to undermine the intelligence of these people, but how many of them would search for a Forum. Not many I would guess, they would be looking for picture framers or framing techniques as their search/keywords.
A while ago, I was doing some coding for a programme, in Visual Basic, so I did a search for VB coding. I was sent everywhere, and there was coding coming out all over the place. However there is a VB coding forum which is excellent, yet that appeared nowhere in my Google/Yahoo searches.

Just a thought

Roboframer

Post by Roboframer » Thu 05 Oct, 2006 7:43 pm

Must admit I saw that link Norah but didn't give it a second glance as I was looking for the URL I see here - estlite etc etc.

Would have clicked on it if I was looking for forums, but as John says - not a natural search for a framer - could easily be stumbled across though.

Having said that, I stumbled across The Grumble in 2002 and hardly looked at it again for 3 years.

Roboframer

Post by Roboframer » Thu 05 Oct, 2006 9:01 pm

absolute framing wrote:Were going off topic, but here is my reading.

1071 Hits 25 posts

Each poster logs on for their post, and presumably to view each individual reply

25 x 25 = 625 Hits by Contributors

1071 - 625 = 446 Divided by 25 posts = 18 individuals - Non contributing viewers
(like Me)

Total unique viewers = 43 give or take

I have guessed this for quite a while , but was afraid it would rub some posters up the wrong way if i burst their bubble :!:

Cheers,

Stephen
No doubt a lot of viewers are posters - have to be but you don't log on to read individual posts - I log on after work and read all posts made before my last visit. That drastically reduces the 625.

More to follow once I've got my head around the rest of your maths, but also how does that formula work for topics with zero replies and 700 views in a week?

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Post by BaBaZa » Thu 05 Oct, 2006 11:32 pm

I would say most framers don't know of this forum. I've mentioned it to framers whilst on my travels and the common reply is 'that's a great idea, never knew it existed'.

The 2 trade magazines may be willing to allow a free advert in return for a free advert on the forum. That is if they don't think the forum is too much competition for them.

Roboframer

Post by Roboframer » Fri 06 Oct, 2006 12:14 am

I don't think my idea of an ad - free or otherwise is such a good one anymore.

It's in THEIR interest to be here - if this got as big (relatively) as TFG they would be fighting to get on - sponsor even.

Competition should not come into it - this is not commercial - question is do they REALLY care about the state of the framing industry or just want to just cash in on it?

It's about time the industry got a boot up the proverbial and a serious reality check. This forum does not pander, nor does TFG - it is growing and the FATG (eg) need to be here to tell members why they need the FATG ... AS WELL.

Here I can say "ACME framing supplies let me down by doing such and such' and as long as it's not just bad blood and not libelious - there ain't a thing ACME framing supplies can do about it. It would never happen on the pages of ABT or TPB - 'cause ACME advertise with them - conflict of interest does not happen here.

Itching to send this out now - not that some recipients have not already read it.

C'mon - let's have a nice big name or two giving their two bob's worth before they get it with the 'also rans'!!!

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Post by Framing Norah » Fri 06 Oct, 2006 5:26 am

To encourage membership, one thing that we all can do is be a bit more welcoming to newcomers who are making their first post. The first post can be quite daunting for some. They are often afraid of rejection, or making a fool of themselves for asking a stupid question. A few words of encouragement at this early stage can go a long way.

I have just had a look at the PFM (circulation 23,000) website. Right there, on the Home page is a link to The Grumble: -

"Access To The Grumble
By a special arrangement, The Picture Framers Grumble can now be reached directly from our site. Not familiar with this forum? It's an open and exciting exchange of information and ideas between framers.
Click here to go there now!"

Highlights a difference in attitude on either side of the pond, don't you think?
FN

less
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Post by less » Fri 06 Oct, 2006 10:02 pm

Hi,

I found this forum because I was looking for pricing software when I started up just one year ago. It has been a great help and source of information for me and although I do not post very often I do read just about everything posted here.

John (Merlin) I was one of the ones interested in going to Plymouth but at least I got the call to say it was off. Pity I was quite looking forward to meeting you in person! Bad show though. There is, apparently, the possibility of a meeting in the Wells area at some time in the future, which might be ok for me but I doubt anyone would want to travel from Plymouth or beyond.

I thought there are at least three or four GCFs in Devon, I know one personally. I'm still trying to find the time to make my set piece frames for the test as I still think the Guild has a chance of coming good, but I also think this forum just needs to keep on growing and developing and I'm sure it will. Keep up the good work John (Scenes)

Les Sutherland

aka less

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Post by sarah » Sat 07 Oct, 2006 11:13 am

Morning Gentlemen and Norah,

I find it quite sad that in this day and age that the guild, and others haven't embraced this form of communication. It is a wonderful resource for information, advice, contact and even, dare I say it, friendly banter.

I belong to several other forums, from a baby forum where ladies are handing out all sorts of advice, criticism, and support, to an ice hockey forum where the same applies. It is active with sponsors, members, suppliers, all giving their views. So I do not understand why this forum hasn't taken off.

The only conclusion I can come to is the very conservative nature of framers etc. They're scared to try something new, scared of criticism, scared of looking silly. Suppliers are just as bad seeing this as some sort of negative, supplier bashing forum, instead of seeing it as FREE market research, FREE, access to customers, FREE PR.

Unfortunately I have no ideas as to how to change this. We have told so many peole about this wee forum, we have even printed invitiations to people inviting them to join.

COME ON LURKERS POST, GET INVOLVED, JOIN THE 21ST CENTURY!

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John
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Post by John » Sat 07 Oct, 2006 1:29 pm

The forum was initially established to support a certain software, but kind of took on a life of its own, evolving into the present configuration over time.

At one time I thought that the product support would be more of a feature, and invited other vendors to support their products here, but sadly none of the invitations were taken up.

In the early days I worried about the legal (copyright) position when the framing publications began their regular webwatch columns, and they started quoting from the forum.

That's turned out to be a real concern, hasn't it?

Another needless concern was that there would be so much FATG participation that the forum would loose its independence and come to be seen as an arm of the Guild.

It seems that just too many framers are unacquainted with our forum; perhaps roboframer's article idea might work, and help to raise awareness.

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Post by BaBaZa » Sat 07 Oct, 2006 4:05 pm

Quote: "Suppliers are just as bad seeing this as some sort of negative, supplier bashing forum, instead of seeing it as FREE market research, FREE, access to customers, FREE PR. "

As I said earlier I think forums are a great thing for the trade. Picture Framing is a relatively small trade in the big scheme of world economics - We therefore should stick together to try to make it stronger.

Sometimes we suppliers deserve a 'public flogging' for the odd mistake or equally a bit of praise for doing a wee bit more than is expected.

The forums are the ideal place to discuss issues that the magazines bypass due to advertising revenue. I've got one in mind but I don't want to be seen as 'competition bashing' - I'm hoping someone else brings it up.

Ricky Patterson
Mainline Mouldings

sarah
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Post by sarah » Sat 07 Oct, 2006 4:27 pm

BaBaZa wrote: Sometimes we suppliers deserve a 'public flogging' for the odd mistake or equally a bit of praise for doing a wee bit more than is expected.

The forums are the ideal place to discuss issues that the magazines bypass due to advertising revenue.
Ricky Patterson
Mainline Mouldings
Well done Ricky, for recognising the potential forum's like this can have and thank you for making yourself known to us.

Being on this forum not only allows you to read ideas and possible criticisms but also allows you to defend a decision, or set a record straight.

Lets hope you are the first of many suppliers to make a much needed and valued contribution to this wee forum.

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