My Prices Verses Imported Ready-mades

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marky9
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My Prices Verses Imported Ready-mades

Post by marky9 »

Hi - Just wondering how all you other framers convince their prospective customer that the price you've quoted isn't really that expensive - after you've picked them up off the floor! I've just given a very reasonable price for a largish poster with a mount and, as I don't think they've had anything professionally framed before, it came as quite a shock.
Obviously the likes of Ikea have set a precident on how much a frame should cost in the eyes of most of the public.

Getting the customer to realise that what we do and what materials we use, is totally different to the ready-made import, is a bit of an uphill struggle in my experience. So - what do you say? :head:
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prospero
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Re: My Prices Verses Imported Ready-mades

Post by prospero »

I sometimes ask just what they were expecting to pay. They must have had some figure in their head. :shock:


I'm thinking of keeping a small stock of BlueTak. :lol:
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stcstc

Re: My Prices Verses Imported Ready-mades

Post by stcstc »

why not give them a price for the frame first then give them the price for you doing the assembley, ie mounting cleaning etc

as thats what they are comparing with, with ikea for example
Graysalchemy

Re: My Prices Verses Imported Ready-mades

Post by Graysalchemy »

The 2 just aren't the same. You are offering a bespoke service making them an exclusive frame for their piece of artwork, and to boot you are putting it in the frame. Its like the difference between going to B&Q for a flat pack kitchen or going to the high street for a bespoke one. You wouldn't go into one of those showrooms expecting flat pack prices.

The other thing to remember is they have probably come to you because either they can't get one to fit or they can't find one they like.

If you are confident about how you arrive at your pricing and you don't get embarrased about it then people are less likely to doubt you. You are after all a bespoke framer, the clue is in the name.
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prospero
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Re: My Prices Verses Imported Ready-mades

Post by prospero »

It's like going round to a car factory and saying,

"I like the such-and-such model, but can you make me one 3" shorter so it will fit in my garage?"

"Certainly can Sir. But we will have to charge you a £50,000,000 surcharge to re-tool"

"But it will be a smaller car!" :shock:


Extreme example, but the principle is sound.
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Re: My Prices Verses Imported Ready-mades

Post by Not your average framer »

I've never been all that worried about justifying my prices when compared with cheap ready mades. My frames will look better for far longer and will still be good when the RMF's have ended up in a landfill site somewhere. People who buy Ikea frames are good for business, because the glass in Ikea frames is so thin (about 1.5mm thick I think), that custmers soon break the glass and need me to cut a new glass for it.

Price comparisons are the cheapskates way of trying to get you to lower your prices. If they were happy with the cheap rubbish, they wouldn't be talking to you, or I at all. They don't like the cheap stuff, but they think they can save some money by wasting your time, or mine trying to knock us down on price. Sacrificing your profit margin trying to get business from a cheapskate is a mugs game!

Having said all that, I do keep a selection of mouldings which I got cheap as clearance offers, or whatever and I find thse quite useful for cash strapped customers, etc. Also Polcore, Emafil, etc. can also fit the bill at times, especially as RMF's with a mount cut to suit while they wait. It's often a good way of getting a little extra cash in the till on a slow day.
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Re: My Prices Verses Imported Ready-mades

Post by Otters Pool Studio »

Identify the compromise. The customer wants to spend £20 on a frame a particular size and a particular colour/style. They can buy a ready-made the right colour and the right price, but not the right size - that's the compromise. If they want something the right size and the right colour, the compromise if the price. This is the same with a bespoke kitchen, bespoke suit, bespoke car (?!!!) etc.

Remind the customer that you are making a single, one-off, custom, bespoke frame to fit and suit their picture perfectly. You have to convince them that the price is where they need to make the compromise.

I always mock up my customers framing with really nice mount combinations from the start. If they then baulk at the price, I state 'well I can take off £8 and make it a single mount' which inevitably results in the customer saying 'yeah, but it doesn't look as nice'! They are now selling it to themselves and convincing themselves to compromise on their budget to get something that looks great.

You can't under-estimate these sales tricks and as graysalchemy stated, you have to be confident with your approach and your prices.
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Re: My Prices Verses Imported Ready-mades

Post by Not your average framer »

Spot on answer, Jon
Mark Lacey

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Re: My Prices Verses Imported Ready-mades

Post by Not your average framer »

I often cut mounts for customers to suit their RMF's. Many of them have no idea at all and buy frames which are too small to look as nice as they should.

Some customers are really appologetic for buying a RMF and asking me to cut a mount for it. As always I'm glad to get a sale even if I didn't get to make the frame. It's still money in the till!

BTW, I put old frames which customers leave behind (when getting something re-framed in the nearest local charity shop) in the hope of getting business for cutting mounts, or glass. It does not generate a lot of business, but for the few that come my way, it's often the first time that they've been in my shop and I make the most of my opportunities. Over the years I've got a few regular customers this way!
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prospero
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Re: My Prices Verses Imported Ready-mades

Post by prospero »

Haven't seen one lately, but at one time there were a few (empty for a while....) shops being taken by people selling stacks of obviously bankrupt stock. Piled high with readymade frames and mirrors framed 'popular' prints. Not badly made (not exactly well made either). A typical 20x30 print with a single mount and cooking quality frame - around £40. What happens is that people buy one, then buy another print and bring it in to you having done a few mental calculations. Print cost £15: ergo the frame will be about 25. Maybe 30. No more surely......

They never wonder why the framed one they bought was bankrupt stock in the first place. :?



One mindset that it is easy to fall into is to assume that all customers are cheapskates until proved otherwise. Some people want quality and know it when they see it. And more importantly know what they should expect to pay. How many times have you adopted a slightly apologetic tone when breaking the 'bad' news?
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Gesso&Bole
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Re: My Prices Verses Imported Ready-mades

Post by Gesso&Bole »

The first, and most important point is to be confident in your own mind that your price is good value for what you are doing.

The more confident you are, the less customers will question your price.

Another issue is how you calculate the price. if you lick your pencil and get your calculator out, most customers will question you - if you have a smart professional looking computer programme, fewer will question the price.

Price condition your customers. Have some samples on your wall have treble mounts and AR glass, and dry-mounting included, and some with double-mounts and plain glass - have them priced so that customers get the hang of what it is likely to be.

My personal approach is to have my computerised pricing defaulting to AR glass and conservation mountboard, so when I put the size and the moulding in, the price will come out higher, and I can then say "that price includes the most expensive glass option (blah blah - explain that in detail) all the while the screen says (say) £130, then I flick AR to plain glass, and suddenly the price is £98, which seems cheap. (But still 55% go for AR).

And finally, remember that only about 5% of the population ever have a bespoke frame made in their whole life - so don't be surprised if one of the 95% thinks your prices are high. It goes with the territory. DO NOT REDUCE YOUR PRICES TO THEIR EXPECTATIONS . . . . . unless you want to commit financial suicide!
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Re: My Prices Verses Imported Ready-mades

Post by Gesso&Bole »

Oh, and to answer your specific question.

I always allude to the difference between buying a suit off the peg, and having one made to measure
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Re: My Prices Verses Imported Ready-mades

Post by misterdiy »

We had an original artwork done by a local artist (she is pretty good really) and she stuck this in an Ikea frame. It was Ribba. Approximately 40' x 30" - it was big. It was also £11.50, new.

It was deep rebated mdf and the "wood" was actually paper stuck on. The glass was plastic which was so thin it was like the acetate stuff you use in presentation folders. The frame had to be screwed to the mdf back with angle brackets because it had insufficient strength to keep the back in on its own.

Someone had done a reasonable mount, but again this was standard core so we framed it all up properly at £130 and she didn't bat an eyelid except to say that looks MUCH better.

Oh the downside is my daughter says can she have the Ribba. :head:
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Re: My Prices Verses Imported Ready-mades

Post by Not your average framer »

Although I don't have a computer pricing program, I don't find this a problem with customers. I never explain my pricing methods apart from working from a price chart in full view of the customer. The main price chart includes individual price components for "the frame", "mount/mounts" and "glass back and fitting". I have additional charts for other charges

They are welcome to check things on the chart for themselves and check my maths, if they want too. I will not discuss how the figures on the chart are produced, my hourly rate, or my mark-up. If they ask, I tell them that I do not have an hourly rate, I just rely upon the chart and also that the chart does not work upon the basis of a fixed mark up. All of which is true!

If it suits me, I may sometimes offer a discount to secure worthwhile work, but it's my business and I call the shots! Another tactic is to show them something really stunning, which costs more than they wish to spend and then leave it in view, while I offer them some cheaper options. We both know that the stunning option is what they really want and of course if they will give a bit on their budget, maybe I will give a little discount to help them to feel good about the deal.
Mark Lacey

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stcstc

Re: My Prices Verses Imported Ready-mades

Post by stcstc »

I actually have no problems showing my customers my main cost prices, along with my rent, rates, electric, phone, mobile, diesil, etc etc

Now i dont just offer up pricing, and generally dont get into discussions on price,

if someone comes in looks for cheap as chipsor even expensive and i dont really want the work, i actually tell them where else to go

and you know what its brought me work, they often come back wanting proper jobs done the next time.
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Re: My Prices Verses Imported Ready-mades

Post by David »

Don’t be afraid to charge a fair price, this industry is dreadful for undervaluing the work we produce.

A framer once told me that if no one is complaining about your prices you are too cheap. When faced with this and when I can be bothered I choose one of the following:

1. This readymade frame was probably made in China/Poland in a factory making these frames by the hundred or thousand, I’m making 1, if you would like to order say 500 I will be able to bring the unit price down considerably.
2. I had my car serviced last week, £320, and they just take one bit off and bolt a new one, I am making everything from either lengths or sheet materials to your custom requirements.
3. It’s like eating out you can have McDonalds (off the shelf) or you can go to a restaurant with service and a varied menu you get what you pay for. A Gordon Ramsey burger isn’t going to be £2.99.
4. My wife had her hair done last week £70 and in a few weeks she’ll go and have it done again, my frames should last a life time.
5. I want a Ferrari but you can’t get them for the cost of a Ford.
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Re: My Prices Verses Imported Ready-mades

Post by prospero »

People often fail to grasp the concept of buying a frame and having a picture framed. In general, framers don't sell frames any more than plumbers sell taps. If people buy a cheap frame then that can be just a small element in the whole job. And it may not be practical for the picture they intended it for, which makes the framers' job more difficult. Sometimes when you come to work out all the ins-and-outs, it could cost considerably more than stating from scratch. :?

Small readymades that are intended just for snapshots are one thing. Take them home, open the back, plonk in photo - done. They are what they are. It's when people get more complicated ideas that the trouble starts. You can't really expect people to understand things like rebate depths and corner strength.
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Graysalchemy

Re: My Prices Verses Imported Ready-mades

Post by Graysalchemy »

David wrote:3. It’s like eating out you can have McDonalds (off the shelf) or you can go to a restaurant with service and a varied menu you get what you pay for. A Gordon Ramsey burger isn’t going to be £2.99.
No its £9.50 at his pub The Narrow but that is a cheese burger with chips and onion rings. Which in actual fact for a central London Gastro Pub :giggle:
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Re: My Prices Verses Imported Ready-mades

Post by Steve N »

I had a customer bring in a R/M (50x23cm)frame along with a print, wanted a mount cut to fit, which I did while they waited, then in front of them on the shop counter I took off the cardboard protective corners, which had been stapled on, one side of the frame cam way in my hands. It was plastic and the two corners had cracked and the length of moulding just fell out. Turn out they had only paid about £5.00 for it from some cheap shop, well I ended up making a new frame for them (which they happily paid for) and now they are a regular customer. But I asked if I could keep the cheap frame, which I show people when they question my prices over cheap imported ready mades, works a treat! :clap:

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Re: My Prices Verses Imported Ready-mades

Post by Trinity »

I did a mini exhibition last Saturday and one of my show pieces was a Fred Elwell print - he is (or was) a local artist from Beverley. The print was 22 x 16 and when asked to do one for an interested lady, also from Beverley I quoted £75. And the print is available ...from Beverley .... price £2 so she would get one. It took me 15 minutes but I had to convince her that she was not buying a £2 print in a frame, but a £75 package that looked, like my example, absolutely stunning. That for me was the difficult bit, getting across how lucky she was to only have to spend a couple of quid to achieve perfect satisfaction. See it on your wall, see it in it's splendid presentation, think of it as yours and yours only, unique....
And that's how I did it.
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