Handlacing Needlework
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Handlacing Needlework
Hi
I was wondering what other people tend to charge for stretching and hand lacing needlework prior to framing. At present I am charging 80p per combined inch... So for a needlepoint that is 14 x 14 ", ie 28 combined inches, I charge £22.40. Given that one this size can take over 3 hours, it doesn't seem much for skilled labour.
I would really appreciate other people's feedback on this.
Many thanks
Jayne
I was wondering what other people tend to charge for stretching and hand lacing needlework prior to framing. At present I am charging 80p per combined inch... So for a needlepoint that is 14 x 14 ", ie 28 combined inches, I charge £22.40. Given that one this size can take over 3 hours, it doesn't seem much for skilled labour.
I would really appreciate other people's feedback on this.
Many thanks
Jayne
- Jonny2morsos
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Re: Handlacing Needlework
Would look more reasonable if you could do it in half an hour!
I know it can be time consuming but three hours does seem a little excessive.
I know it can be time consuming but three hours does seem a little excessive.
Re: Handlacing Needlework
min 25+vat. More if it's bigger than about 20x16.
Or cut them a bit of board and tell them to bring it back when they have done it themselves.
Or cut them a bit of board and tell them to bring it back when they have done it themselves.
Watch Out. There's A Humphrey About
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Re: Handlacing Needlework
I pitch it to the customer that if they lace the work themselves it will save them a lot of money. Support this by giving them a price including my time for lacing and without. Inveriably they do the lacing themselves having bought the board from me first. This enables me to do more profitable work for other customers. Never had a customer not bring their laced work back for the final framing.
Hope this helps.
Hope this helps.
- Gesso&Bole
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Re: Handlacing Needlework
Hi Jayne
Your rate doesn't seem too far off the mark, but 3 hours is way off the mark!
A job of that size should be completed in less than an hour. Maybe you need to look at your technique?
Your rate doesn't seem too far off the mark, but 3 hours is way off the mark!
A job of that size should be completed in less than an hour. Maybe you need to look at your technique?
Jeremy (Jim) Anderson
Picture Framer and Framing Industry Educator
https://www.jeremyanderson.co.uk/
https://www.instagram.com/ja_picture_framer/
Picture Framer and Framing Industry Educator
https://www.jeremyanderson.co.uk/
https://www.instagram.com/ja_picture_framer/
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Re: Handlacing Needlework
Thank you all for your feedback... I guess I can be a bit obsessive about things, and that's why it takes me so long. I like to make the lacing as even and neat as possible. I know it's madness, but I can't help it. I use the continuous thread method and I find what actually takes the time is feeding the thread through as I go along. I know I could speed it up by tying knots, but I just can't bring myself to do it that way. As I said, I am a bit obsessive.
However, I am pleased that our pricing for this is in the right ball park.
Jayne
PS My husband is the framer, I do all the other stuff necessary in this game !
However, I am pleased that our pricing for this is in the right ball park.
Jayne
PS My husband is the framer, I do all the other stuff necessary in this game !
- Tudor Rose
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Re: Handlacing Needlework
Hi Jayne
We would charge £18 for lacing a 14" x 14" and something that size would be done in no more than about 30-45 minutes.
We found the Framing Needlework book by Vivian Kistler was a great help in perfecting techniques. We got our copy from Lions.
We would charge £18 for lacing a 14" x 14" and something that size would be done in no more than about 30-45 minutes.
We found the Framing Needlework book by Vivian Kistler was a great help in perfecting techniques. We got our copy from Lions.
Jo Palmer GCF(APF) Adv
Textile, Mount Design & Function & Conservation
Forum Moderator & Framing Educator
www.pictureframingtraining.com
Guild Certified Examiner & Guild Accredited Trainer
Guild Master from May 2019 to May 2022
Textile, Mount Design & Function & Conservation
Forum Moderator & Framing Educator
www.pictureframingtraining.com
Guild Certified Examiner & Guild Accredited Trainer
Guild Master from May 2019 to May 2022
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Re: Handlacing Needlework
Our pricing comes out at £28 and like Tudor Rose would allow 30 - 45 mins. We also give the customer the option of lacing it themselves which I prefer as the price is below our standard rates and is only viable as part of a full framing job.
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Re: Handlacing Needlework
I would charge £20 to lace a 14" x 14" and I would lace it onto 3mm foamboard with the aid of plastic headed stainless steel dressmaker's pin which I get from Morplan and I pull these out after the lacing is complete. I've stopped using T-pins as they sometimes get snagged on the fabric and often require more effort to remove them.
The foamboard and the pins just makes life a lot easier. I stretch and pin it, then my wife laces it. For cheapskate customers we just pin it and frame it. Including my time and my wife's time to do this, I would guess that the job would not take more than 45 minutes and we're not exactly fast. I would guess that someone who is fast, would probably do it in as little as 15 minutes. I was shown how to do this by Mike Royale and if anything he might have been faster than that. His method was without using pins and the finished result was beautifully straight.
I refuse to do anything which is not fully reversible, even for the cheapskates, so no adhesives, tapestry tapes, or anything like that. Although if a cheapskate wants it as cheap as possible, I will concede to only a single mount. However, anything which has not been properly laced and framed with a double mount, then I will not put my label on the back and I tell them so. Some people reconsider their requirements when I say this!
Generally, I don't give customers the option of lacing it themselves, as I want to protect my reputation and I can't be sure of the future implications of anything which they may have done without my knowledge. If I did agree to a customer lacing their own work, then I would not put my label on the back and again I would tell them so!
The foamboard and the pins just makes life a lot easier. I stretch and pin it, then my wife laces it. For cheapskate customers we just pin it and frame it. Including my time and my wife's time to do this, I would guess that the job would not take more than 45 minutes and we're not exactly fast. I would guess that someone who is fast, would probably do it in as little as 15 minutes. I was shown how to do this by Mike Royale and if anything he might have been faster than that. His method was without using pins and the finished result was beautifully straight.
I refuse to do anything which is not fully reversible, even for the cheapskates, so no adhesives, tapestry tapes, or anything like that. Although if a cheapskate wants it as cheap as possible, I will concede to only a single mount. However, anything which has not been properly laced and framed with a double mount, then I will not put my label on the back and I tell them so. Some people reconsider their requirements when I say this!
Generally, I don't give customers the option of lacing it themselves, as I want to protect my reputation and I can't be sure of the future implications of anything which they may have done without my knowledge. If I did agree to a customer lacing their own work, then I would not put my label on the back and again I would tell them so!
Mark Lacey
“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
- Tudor Rose
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Re: Handlacing Needlework
Everyone has their own methods for dealing with needlework that comes in for framing and it is not just about how long it takes to do the actual lacing, or support stiching, or pinning, or whatever method you use for a particular piece of work. You need to factor in how long it takes you from start to finish - preparing the area you will be using on a worktop/table or whatever, gathering the right bits and pieces together, cutting a board to the right size, etc. All these things take some time out of your working day.
The thing is that the customer should be prepared to pay a fair price for having their work prepared for framing - but it is unfair to expect the customer to pay over the odds just because (for example and not suggesting this is anyone in particular) it takes you half an hour to clear the space to do the work, or you keep your sewing stuff in an inconvenient place that takes you five minutes to access etc. That extra time would be your choice because that is the way you work, not the customer's choice.
So really what I'm trying to say is that it is fair to expect the customer to pay a fair price (and I think we are all agreed that the price you quoted as charging is pretty fair), but you cannot expect to get a better hourly rate just because you choose to take 3 hours to lace a piece of work.
Hope that makes some sort of sense.
The thing is that the customer should be prepared to pay a fair price for having their work prepared for framing - but it is unfair to expect the customer to pay over the odds just because (for example and not suggesting this is anyone in particular) it takes you half an hour to clear the space to do the work, or you keep your sewing stuff in an inconvenient place that takes you five minutes to access etc. That extra time would be your choice because that is the way you work, not the customer's choice.
So really what I'm trying to say is that it is fair to expect the customer to pay a fair price (and I think we are all agreed that the price you quoted as charging is pretty fair), but you cannot expect to get a better hourly rate just because you choose to take 3 hours to lace a piece of work.
Hope that makes some sort of sense.
Jo Palmer GCF(APF) Adv
Textile, Mount Design & Function & Conservation
Forum Moderator & Framing Educator
www.pictureframingtraining.com
Guild Certified Examiner & Guild Accredited Trainer
Guild Master from May 2019 to May 2022
Textile, Mount Design & Function & Conservation
Forum Moderator & Framing Educator
www.pictureframingtraining.com
Guild Certified Examiner & Guild Accredited Trainer
Guild Master from May 2019 to May 2022
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Re: Handlacing Needlework
Have just started Lacing again due to customer requests.
I have been using T-Pins for the last few years as I find it a lot quicker.
I use these guys from Lion http://www.lionpic.co.uk/product/T-Pins ... 524,0.aspx
& stretch over 3mm Acid Free Foam Board.
For lacing I use cotton, as supplied by Roboframer http://theframersforum.com/viewtopic.ph ... kit#p94820
& stretch over 3mm Acid Free Foam Board.
Lacing is a lot slower than T Pins.
The Job above 14" x 14" (Aperture Size) - Including Foam Board - +VAT
T-Pins £24 / € 30 Approx 20 minutes
Lacing £42 / €53 Approx 60 minutes
Opinions on Lacing time would be appreciated
Other lacing Jobs Recently Done
(Aperture Size) 16" x 16" : 80 Minutes
(Aperture Size) 13" x 10 : 55 minutes
T-Pin Job Recently Done
(Aperture Size) 22" x 15" : 20 minutes
I have been using T-Pins for the last few years as I find it a lot quicker.
I use these guys from Lion http://www.lionpic.co.uk/product/T-Pins ... 524,0.aspx
& stretch over 3mm Acid Free Foam Board.
For lacing I use cotton, as supplied by Roboframer http://theframersforum.com/viewtopic.ph ... kit#p94820
& stretch over 3mm Acid Free Foam Board.
Lacing is a lot slower than T Pins.
The Job above 14" x 14" (Aperture Size) - Including Foam Board - +VAT
T-Pins £24 / € 30 Approx 20 minutes
Lacing £42 / €53 Approx 60 minutes
Opinions on Lacing time would be appreciated
Other lacing Jobs Recently Done
(Aperture Size) 16" x 16" : 80 Minutes
(Aperture Size) 13" x 10 : 55 minutes
T-Pin Job Recently Done
(Aperture Size) 22" x 15" : 20 minutes
Stephen Strahan
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Re: Handlacing Needlework
Quick link to my site with sample photos of my Lacing & T-Pining
http://www.pictureframing.ie/_mgxroot/page_10782.html
http://www.pictureframing.ie/_mgxroot/page_10782.html
Stephen Strahan
Re: Handlacing Needlework
Far too long for me, in fact the complete frame job wouldn't take that long - most things from between 12x12 - 20x16 (image) take me about 20 mins to lace ..... UNLESS they have a stitched border - that can be a nightmare as can uneven tension on a low count fabric (where the holes are prominent and need to line up with the mount aperture)absolute framing wrote:Opinions on Lacing time would be appreciated
Other lacing Jobs Recently Done
(Aperture Size) 16" x 16" : 80 Minutes
(Aperture Size) 13" x 10 : 55 minutes
I don't lace across foam board - the conservation properties are nothing like the same as conservation mount board plus it's brittle and creates bulk - you have to make the board flush plus three thicknesses of fabric, when I do pin using 3mm foam board I make flush with 5mm foam board. Up to 20x16 (image) I use 4 ply mount board (made flush with 3mm foam board) and above that I bond mount boards together.
I usually find lacing faster than pinning, with pinning and counted fabric you (well I anyway) need to get all the pins through the same row of holes and also in line on the edge of the board. Once two sides are pinned, or all four, there's no movement, it can't be tweaked without removing and re-inserting pins. When laced and before tensioning on the way back, or even after tensioning, tweaking, sometimes with the help of clean rubber gloves, is usually still possible.
Your photo of lacing on your website, that would not be enough spare fabric for me, I'd machine-sew calico extensions on - or rather, get one of the 'girls' to do that - it can be done so that they almost meet when laced - and that makes lacing really quick.