Hand Finishing Moulding

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Phill
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Hand Finishing Moulding

Post by Phill » Sat 07 Apr, 2007 7:02 pm

We are trying to do some hand finished mouldings, and recently purchased an Obeche moulding which we wanted to give a solid white finish, we also purchased a white Plaka paint to do this with, initially we watered the paint down to give a base coat, unfortunatley when we painted the first coat there were holes or gaps appearing in the paint, we did not worry at this stage but on subsiquent thicker coats the problem remained, we have been told that a coat of pva glue and water should be used to seal the wood prior to painting, could anyone give us some advice on this, also what paint would you recomend for this purpose.

mick11
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Post by mick11 » Sat 07 Apr, 2007 8:47 pm

Hi Phill,

Obeche is very difficult to get a solid finish on due to its very open grain. The only way I know of is to use about 3 or 4 coats of solvent based sanding sealer, and sand after each coat until it is as smooth as a babies bum, prior to applying any paint.

PVA is used to seal brickwork etc, but in my experience does not sand very well, and anything water based will raise the grain even more.

If you don't want a high gloss finish you may find liming wax will fill the grain after painting.

I spray my frames and dont get holes or gaps, but you can still see the grain effect even though the finish is in effect solid.
I actually like the effect.
Mick
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The impossible I can do today,
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foxyframer
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Post by foxyframer » Sat 07 Apr, 2007 8:47 pm

We carry a 3" plain obeche 195.400.000 from Arqadia. Customers like it.

Always sand with a fairly fine grade glass paper prior to any paint finishes. This will get rid of any odd patches which are causing the problem. For white finishes (either washes or fullcoat) use matt emulsion. Acrylics for other colours.

After the frame is assembled, just buff up with a cotton pad.

Get it right and it'll look good.
Measure twice - cut once

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Post by absolute framing » Sat 07 Apr, 2007 9:20 pm

Hi,

I do a lot of white frames, and have experimented with many types of paint.
The best results have been with a coat or two of Wood Primer, and then at least 2 coats of " Dulux Easycare Tough Satin Pure White "

Hope this is of some help,

Stephen

Phill
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Post by Phill » Tue 10 Apr, 2007 6:09 pm

Thanks for your replys.
Will try one or two different paints, and try the sanding sealer but having to do 3 or 4 coates seems a lot of work for the job I have(artist wanting cheapest job possiable but looking expensive).
Again thanks for you replys. :?

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Post by foxyframer » Tue 10 Apr, 2007 7:29 pm

' Artist wanting cheapest job as possible '

Thinks ?? - plain wood - cheap - WRONG !

Especially when you're going to give it a customized finish.

Cheapest job, if you have to do it. Bin end moulding, want to get rid off. Do you both a favour.

Anyway any cheapo artist worth a grain of salt will be down the garden shed knocking up his own.
Measure twice - cut once

Grahame Case

Post by Grahame Case » Tue 10 Apr, 2007 7:39 pm

while we're on the subject of bin end mouldings.... anoyone got any ideas for shifting around 20metres of this?


Image

i can't even remember where we bought it from originally....

but Mainline Mouldings are selling it at £10.39 per metre/£3.17 per foot


sounds about what we paid for it as well... what were we thinking??

Roboframer

Post by Roboframer » Tue 10 Apr, 2007 8:39 pm

I remember that moulding!

Euro mouldings did a range of them - trains, cars, teddys etc etc - designed for nurseries, but far too expensive for that type of framing.

Ended up making photo frames out of it all. The reason for the cost is that all the designs are inlaid, bandings too.

Grahame Case

Post by Grahame Case » Tue 10 Apr, 2007 8:43 pm

ahhh that would be who we got it from originally, Euro Mouldings...

or Euro Baguettes as the cheque often read.. never ceased to be hilarious

we probably will end up making ready mades from it, as its been completely discontinued off of our chevron board.

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Post by Not your average framer » Tue 10 Apr, 2007 9:59 pm

I have tried the Plaka paint, but I find Acrylic paints have got the edge. I have also used Dulux Trade emulsion, which is a solvent based paint and it was very good, but is very slow to dry and not cheap, either! I do quite a lot of handfinished mouldings, including for the cheaper jobs.

Cheap jobs need one coat only, "brush it on and wipe it off". I use acrylic and the wiping action fills in any missing bits, but not if you water it down very much. Favorite acrylics are Pete's Everest paints and also Craig & Rose 1829 acrylic eggshell emusion, the choice depending on which range has the colour I want. The Everest paints are thicker which is helpful.

Have you tried Acrylic Varnishing Wax? It will mix with pigments, dyes or acrylic paint for adding colour and produces a really good looking finish without much effort.

Real wax finishes are really quick too!

foxyframer
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Post by foxyframer » Wed 11 Apr, 2007 7:48 am

NYA

I use a water-based emulsion. B&Q do a good white; quick to dry. I always do a test piece. Colour tints using acrylic with the white as a base works well. Add the colour a little at a time to get the right tone.

If you let it dry, a fine glass paper with the grain cuts the emulsion down to a professional finish, then buff with a cotton pad.

All a case of experimenting, but finish is everything.
Measure twice - cut once

Hedgehog
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Teddy bear moulding

Post by Hedgehog » Wed 11 Apr, 2007 1:03 pm

To Graham Case,

I had some of this from Euro about 8 years ago, I managed to use all my stock, the trick was to cut the moulding without getting half a bear on the joint (customers don't like half cut bears :cry: ) this made the frame to be an odd size but it is easy to cut a mount to fit rather than kill half a bear. They all sold to grandmothers :D who thought they were great for putting pictures of their grandchildren in.

20 metres should give you 15 good photo frames, just put a sign up outside your shop 'Grandmothers required' to make picture framer happy :)

Enjoy Hedgehog
Every little helps, if only we knew the little?

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Post by Not your average framer » Wed 11 Apr, 2007 7:14 pm

Hi Foxyframer,

I think you'll find that the B & Q water-based emulsion is probably a Vinyl emulsion. I don't know of any particular reason for not mixing Vinyl and acrylic paints, but I've always avoided it in case there's a problem.

I might try doing it myself later to see how it works out. Another reason why I use acrylic paints is you can speed up the drying with the careful use of a hot air gun. Somehow, I have the impression that this causes problems with vinyl, but I can't remember how I gained this impression, so I may be wrong.

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Post by Not your average framer » Wed 25 Apr, 2007 8:05 pm

foxyframer wrote:NYA

I use a water-based emulsion. B&Q do a good white; quick to dry. I always do a test piece. Colour tints using acrylic with the white as a base works well. Add the colour a little at a time to get the right tone.
Hi Foxyframer,

Early this week I was speaking to the Craig & Rose customer helpline to ask which of their new paints are acrylic and I ended up speaking to their Technical Director who told me that some of their paints are a mixture of Vinyl and Acrylic polymers. Clearly your technique must be good practice, if the likes of Craig & Rose do it. I shall do likewise. Thanks for the tip!

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Post by WelshFramer » Thu 26 Apr, 2007 10:49 am

foxyframer wrote:' Artist wanting cheapest job as possible '

Thinks ?? - plain wood - cheap - WRONG !

Especially when you're going to give it a customized finish.
Presumably he only paints cheap paintings.

Odd how many artists complain that people won't pay decent prices for their art and then complain about the cost of framing.
Mike Cotterell
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foxyframer
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Post by foxyframer » Thu 26 Apr, 2007 8:44 pm

I find artists fall into two main groups.

Those who are brilliant and are absolute naturals. They are difficult to unearth; tend to self deprecate and undersell themselves and have a tendency to undercharge as well.

The other group are the PITA brigade who have an over inflated view of their abilities, often comparing work to what you may have in the gallery.
'I can do that or better.'

I now do a sale or return if they're good enough; puts no obligation or commitment on the gallery. Where as it used to be buy in, frame up and display; but you have to be dead certain.

Frame any artists' work cheaply, brilliant or poor, still looks cheap.

Perception, if nothing else.
Measure twice - cut once

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Post by Not your average framer » Sat 28 Apr, 2007 9:36 pm

Craig & Rose have brought out some new paints, including an interesting suede finish paint. It's mostly an acrylic polymer (which I personally like), with a smaller amount of a vinyl polymer.

It is not soft and fluffy like suede, but (judging by the sample card), it dries to a textured finish. When I get the chance, I want to try some.

What I am hoping is that it will cover in one coat and completely hid the wood grain and any raising of the grain underneath. If so, it may work well on cheap pine profiles (I hope)!

foxyframer
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Post by foxyframer » Sat 28 Apr, 2007 9:56 pm

NYA

I like obeche for paint finishes. First thin coat always raises the grain, fine sand with grain, then the final coat and buff.

I have never painted pine. I would think the resin content may give a problem later; flaking off or not adhering properly.

I find any painted finish falls into 'delicate catagory', so have to be extra careful in handling.

This Craig & Rose sounds interesting; I'll give it a go.
Measure twice - cut once

Not your average framer
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Post by Not your average framer » Sat 28 Apr, 2007 10:42 pm

Foxyframer,

I also prefer Obeche, but also Ash, Tulipwood and Lime too! However, there are some very useful and nicely priced pine mouldings.

There are two types of pine used for mouldings, "Quebec yellow pine" (the one with all the knots) and Estonian pine (the very white variety without knots). This does not mean these pines come from these places, but these are generic types of pine.

The Estonian variety is much lower in resin and is used for many of the better quality plain wood mouldings. Most of the truck has no branches, as all the braches are right at the top end. It is supposed to be less prone to twisting, splitting, or bending too! I don't know how you can confirm this, but in my expirience there appears to be reasonable grounds for such a claim. The wood is very white with much less colour variations within the grain, which to me suggests less resin, (resin being yellow - not white)! You will find plenty of this type of pine used in finished mouldings in suppliers catalogues too!

Pete (Bingham), if you are about, perhaps you would like to clarify this one, thanks.

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Post by Not your average framer » Fri 08 Jun, 2007 10:12 pm

Not your average framer wrote:Craig & Rose have brought out some new paints, including an interesting suede finish paint. It's mostly an acrylic polymer (which I personally like), with a smaller amount of a vinyl polymer.

It is not soft and fluffy like suede, but (judging by the sample card), it dries to a textured finish. When I get the chance, I want to try some.

What I am hoping is that it will cover in one coat and completely hid the wood grain and any raising of the grain underneath. If so, it may work well on cheap pine profiles (I hope)!
I have been using the suede finish paint and like the effect, but it needs two or even three coats to get the best result. However it dries in seconds with a hot air gun. It completely hides any raised woodgrain and the join lines on mitres. It's already a favourite with us!

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