Advice on buying glass

[osgood]

I've got the Excalibur 5000. Cuts glass like a dream: I get a clean break about 99% of the time. If I wear a good thick pair of riggers gloves (backwards! ), I can snap off excess down to about 10mm.

I use a Fletcher, which is similar, but there are differences. I'm puzzled why you only get a clean cut 99% of the time, but then I notice you use the clamp and this might explain it.
Certainly with the Fletcher, using the clamp when cutting glass is a definite no-no and I can't imagine that it should be any different with any other machine. There is no need for the clamp anyway. The glass is certainly not going to move once it is in position.

It's possible to snap off a piece down to three mm wide if you slide the glass out and hold the piece between your thumb and forefinger. I'm afraid I don't use or even have any gloves. (I don't have any safety glasses either)

If the area where the glass sits is metal, damage can occur when placing the glass on it. A long strip of plastic about one to two mm thick placed in there with a bit of tape to stop it sliding will prevent any chipping.

[Roboframer]

Certainly with the Fletcher, using the clamp when cutting glass is a definite no-no and I can't imagine that it should be any different with any other machine. There is no need for the clamp anyway. The glass is certainly not going to move once it is in position.

You have to use the clamp on the Keencut - the cutting head slides up and down it.

[Moglet]

I'm puzzled why you only get a clean cut 99% of the time, but then I notice you use the clamp and this might explain it.

Re clamp, and with no previous experience, I was following the manual, Ormond! (Keencut recommend very lightly clamping the glass.) My 1% of "unclean" cuts are where the offcut section doesn't break all the way down at the first "snap" or where, occasionally, I suspect there was a flaw in the glass itself that caused a break.

Thanks for the tip on really skinny pieces. Glass still scares the willies out of me at times, but I'll give it a try sometime! Still reserve the right to use my gloves...

Edited to add:

Yeah, that too Robo! (What am I like?)

[osgood]

You have to use the clamp on the Keencut - the cutting head slides up and down it.

Well, I'm now glad I bought a Fletcher!

Another tip for glasscutting is to dip the glass cutting wheel into some very light machine oil such as that used in pneumatically operated machinery. Do this at least once a week and it will make the wheel last longer and cut better and cleaner.

If you get a new wheel, it will usually be "too sharp" for a while and the cuts will improve with wear. I am now on my second tungsten wheel in my Fletcher in 20 years.

[osgood]

Thanks for the tip on really skinny pieces. Glass still scares the willies out of me at times, but I'll give it a try sometime! Still reserve the right to use my gloves...

The more experience you get with glass, the more confidence you will get and the easier it will become.
Practise cutting up lots of scrap into strips. Start at about 50mm then reduce down gradually to about 8mm (without the gloves) Use scrap that is about 400mm long to start with then work up to the longest scraps you have. Do all you breaking in your hands, not on the cutter and you will get a "feel" for the glass and how it behaves.

In a former occupation, I made hundreds, if not thousands of glass aquariums and developed a proficiency at cutting half inch wide strips out of 6mm glass. Once you know the technique and develop a feel for the way glass behaves, it becomes second nature.

[Not your average framer]

On the cutter, with the clamp still in place.

I can understand why this is done, but I've never found it necessary. The problem occurs on both the Keencut 4000 and 5000 (Excalibur) and it's because sometimes the glass is not fully in contact with the backing plate during during scoring or breaking of the glass.

I get around this by holding the glass against the stop and the backing plate with one hand while moving the glass wheel head with the other hand. I then apply pressure with one hand either side of the scored line to break the glass. It works every time.

Incidentally Ormond is quite correct the Fletcher-Terry does not appear to suffer from the same problem I know this because where I was trained they replaced their Keencut Excalibur with the Fletcher-Terry). This is because the machine is screwed directly to the wall, while the weight of the Keencut allows it to flex slightly as it is supported by it's feet on the floor and it's top against the wall.

The middle by not being directly supported just sags a little, but it's no big deal. A little light pressure by hand and the problem is gone!

Comment added during editing:

This was less of a problem with Hungard glass, because it's not 2mm thick, but only 1.85mm thick and will flex just a little more than the normal 2mm stuff.

[Not your average framer]

I can understand why this is done, but I've never found it necessary. The problem occurs on both the Keencut 4000 and 5000 (Excalibur) and it's because sometimes the glass is not always fully in contact with the backing plate during during scoring or breaking of the glass.

I get around this by holding the glass against the stop and the backing plate with one hand while moving the glass wheel head with the other hand. I then apply pressure with one hand either side of the scored line to break the glass. It works every time.

Incidentally Ormond is quite correct the Fletcher-Terry does not appear to suffer from the same problem I know this because where I was trained they replaced their Keencut Excalibur with the Fletcher-Terry). This is because the machine is screwed directly to the wall, while the weight of the Keencut allows it to flex slightly as it is supported by it's feet on the floor and it's top against the wall.

The middle by not being directly supported just sags a little, but it's no big deal. A little light pressure by hand and the problem is gone!

[Roboframer]

I get around this by holding the glass against the stop and the backing plate with one hand while moving the glass wheel head with the other hand. I then apply pressure with one hand either side of the scored line to break the glass. It works every time.

Don't understand - the clamp is an extra hand, the glass to the left of it is supposed to have fresh air behind it, has to or you can't push it back to snap it.

So, seeing as you have to clamp it to score it, are you then un-clamping it to snap it and using your right hand for what the clamp is designed for?

[Not your average framer]

Don't understand - the clamp is an extra hand, the glass to the left of it is supposed to have fresh air behind it, has to or you can't push it back to snap it.

So, seeing as you have to clamp it to score it, are you then un-clamping it to snap it and using your right hand for what the clamp is designed for?

Hi John,

Perhaps I could have explained myself better. I never use the clamp at all on the glass. I don't need to! However, if the glass is not touching the raised bump behind the vertical slideway all along the length of the cut, it doesn't score properly along the whole length of the break. A little light pressure from one hand on the left hand side of the glass, (I'm right handed), positioned half way up the piece of glass corrects this.

The raised bump is in the middle of the backing plate and behind the vertical slideway. One hand either side of this vertical bar, each placed half way up the piece of glass will first flatten the glass against the raised breaking bump and as the pressure is increased it will cause the cut to open and the glass to break.

I hope this explains my meaning better.

Edit - I was trained never to clamp the glass, so I never have. In fact before to today I didn't know it was done!

[osgood]

Edit - I was trained never to clamp the glass, so I never have. In fact before to today I didn't know it was done!

You were trained right!

It sounds to me that this brand of machine has some design oddities that make the procedure much more difficult than it needs to be.
With the Fletcher, you slide the glass in to the correct measurent, run the cutter down to score it, then snap it off with your hand. No clamps, no pushing the glass against anything in the middle, no standing on your head and doing twenty seven push ups first..........

After reading some of these posts on the Keencut, I wonder why some of you bought them in preference to a Fletcher (which uses my favourite principle - the KISS principle)??????????????????????????????

[Roboframer]

Saying no more 'til I've tried it without clamping - I'll take a camera!

[Roboframer]

OK - I wuz wrong!

Sure the clamp is part of the cutting arm - but it pivots on the cutting arm - the cutting head doesn't budge when the clamp is moved forward.


So - OK - yes you can cut glass without it, but it's a cushioned rubber clamp that holds the glass in place over its whole length - your hand can't do that. You can have it just touching or gripped so hard that it will hold the glass/board off the bed, or at any angle.

Leaving your hand free to beat the wolves off.

Anyway - I read the manual for the second time today and it says, as Moglet said, to use the clamp and apply slight pressure.

I also discovered that I could adjust the pressure of the score with an allen key and now both my framers can cut glass as well as me!!!

I did take my camera down - but not needed to prove my point - 'cause I wuz rong.

So I took a piccy of my new car instead!

See that wonky rectangle above the workshop porch? There was a sign there 'Angmering Framing' for the benefit of rookie delivery drivers.

See the new fence panel? High winds? No! Behind us is a garden machinery place - serious stuff - sit on etc. Guy is stacking pallets on a forklift - wheel skids - forklift slides into a rut, pallets fall on my porch and trash the sign.

The car was a day old and I'd left about 15 mins before it happened!

[Merlin]

I have the Excaliber 5000 and have always used the clamp when cutting glass.
Just score down then with a slight thump' with the palm of the hand a nice clean break occurs.

No problem........

[Roboframer]

Tell you what I did as well - I oiled the wheel - there is no reservoir for oil and I think that that would be a good feature to add - got to be room in that housing. What a difference!

Why I have not done this before I don't know - I'm going to add a tiny drop each, or every other day from now on. My hand glass cutter is oil filled - had it for years and it makes a far better, finer and more consistent score than the maxi-slasher ever did, 'til now!

So - whoever it was that mentioned oiling the wheel - thanks for reminding me!

(Edit - it was Osgood - thanks Ormond - and yes - wish I'd bought the Fletcher too - maxi slasher and mount (mat) cutter too - oh - and the oval one. I'd never ever seen the Fletchers in action until I met John Ranes, and thought 'Uh-Oh'!)

[Moglet]

Should have mentioned in earlier post that on the 1% of occasions that I don't get a clean break it's usually when I'm snapping off a tiny offcut (15mm or less), and on longer lengths of glass. Also, I think my nerve (or lack thereof!) may be a significant factor!

[Roboframer]

Should have mentioned in earlier post that on the 1% of occasions that I don't get a clean break it's usually when I'm snapping off a tiny offcut (15mm or less), and on longer lengths of glass. Also, I think my nerve (or lack thereof!) may be a significant factor!

For those narrow strips, I (as per the manual) remove the lite and snap with a pair of these pliers, which are brilliant!

For cuts of 10mm or less I'll do it by hand for glass and less than 5mm for board ditto.

(Edit again - just slightly off topic here aren't we? Whatever - but in part answer to original question Twin Peaks CLICK)

[Moglet]

For cuts of .... less than 5mm for board

Same as yourself for board, John. Less than 5mm and I find it gets "ragged" on the sheet cutter.

Thanks, too, for tool tip. I'm just about to place my latest Lion order. Perfect timing!

[osgood]

Should have mentioned in earlier post that on the 1% of occasions that I don't get a clean break it's usually when I'm snapping off a tiny offcut (15mm or less), and on longer lengths of glass. Also, I think my nerve (or lack thereof!) may be a significant factor!

Bare fingers are best for breaking off small bits. Forefinger and thumb, at the bottom, bend slightly away from you and the break will run all the way to the top.
This happens quickly with thin glass, but with quarter inch glass, breaks can be run very slowly, stopped and started again and you can watch the break as it runs along the length of the cut.

I only ever use pliers (different to Robo's link) when the offcut gets down to 4mm or less. Above that size it is fingers only to ensure that the offcut is in one long piece. Pliers can often cause the offcut to break out away from the cut line and several pieces and a rough cut edge results.

The pliers in Robo's link are good, but the piece of glass really should be flat on a table for best results.

[dan the framer]

Depends on the cutting table you have. Most tend to use 4x3's but 60"x40'" are also available as are 6x4's. Obviously, 6x4's are more efficient but can be a bugger to handle. I use a company in Goole, Yorkshire that supply me weekly with my glass, board and ancilliaries. i know they cover nationwide 'cos I'm down south. Quality is excellent. 01405 767897

[Moglet]

Hi Dan, and welcome to the forum!

I shuddered at the thought of handling a 6' x 4' sheet of glass - it would be bigger than I am....