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WelshFramer
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Post by WelshFramer »

Grahame Case wrote:
we don't, we deal with Bainbridge Alphamat artcare and a few slater harrison and daler conservation quality boards.
I've just started using Bainbridge boards. I received my first delivery last week and found that they're not cut square. It's not a problem I've had with Colourmount.

Is this normal for Bainbridge boards or have I just been unlucky?
Mike Cotterell
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Grahame Case

Post by Grahame Case »

hadn't really noticed them being off square Mike,


are they trapezoid shaped or something?
WelshFramer
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Post by WelshFramer »

Something like that.

Two of the sheets that I've tried are off-square to the extent of being about 10 mm out along the short edge. I thought that maybe the Keencut had been pushed out of alignment but checking the board with a T square gave the same result.

Sounds like I maybe just been unlucky. Still, it's taught be to check before cutting (if I remember).
Mike Cotterell
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Post by Not your average framer »

I always assume that edges are not square and start with a trimming cut just to be sure.
osgood

Post by osgood »

WelshFramer wrote: Two of the sheets that I've tried are off-square to the extent of being about 10 mm out along the short edge.
I have never seen a matboard that was 10mm out of square. If I did, it would be sent back to whence it came, immediately.
WelshFramer
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Post by WelshFramer »

That's reassuring -- I guess I just got a dud batch of a 5-pack of white Artcare mountboard.

It's easy enough to true it up before using -- it's just a case of remembering.

My first mountboard order with Bainbridge was less than perfect. About 8 of the boards I wanted were out of stock till Jan, the white boards were out of square aand one patterned board was so scuffed as to be unusable. I really do hope this was a one-off problem.
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Grahame Case

Post by Grahame Case »

we don't deal with Bainbridge direct, we go through Radius Mouldings Ltd (AHS Sisslings)

never had a problem with our orders.
osgood

Post by osgood »

WelshFramer wrote: It's easy enough to true it up before using -- it's just a case of remembering.
That's OK except where you need the entire sheet!
When you have a CMC, you don't have to remember to square the sheet, but it is obvious when you put the sheet into the machine if it is not square.
markw

Post by markw »

Welsh framer - I assume by Bainbridge you mean Nielsen. I use Artcare but have a real problem with the way they are packaged. They come in very flimsy polythene bags - often torn open. Dark boards scuffed - and light boards with specks. To be frank, if I didn't think the Artcare range had a real advantage over other similarly priced boards I wouldn't use it.

I really don't understand why Bainbridge are the only company to pack their boards in such a patently inadequate way - its obvious that it leads to all sorts of quality issues - last batch of boards delivered almost all the bags were torn.

I have asked why the bags are so flimsy and pointed out the problems it creates - I didn't get a very satisfactory reply and can only suggest that if others are getting similar quality issues then we all make a concerted effort to get them to change the packaging.
Roboframer

Post by Roboframer »

Nielsen or Bainbridge or Nielsen-Bainbridge - whatever.

Are you dealing direct Mark/anyone else?

I am and I don't have a problem - if anything there is more chance of damage from their own van delivery, as they hardly use any packaging.

But on the rare occasions that I need them to send stuff by carrier it is really well packaged.

I also find communication difficult with them - but I've a great rep who sorts things out well - usually admin problems - hardly ever quality.
WelshFramer
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Post by WelshFramer »

markw wrote:I really don't understand why Bainbridge are the only company to pack their boards in such a patently inadequate way - its obvious that it leads to all sorts of quality issues - last batch of boards delivered almost all the bags were torn.
My delivery came by courier (next day) and was really well packed in stout purpose-made cardboard boxes which are now being recycled by a neighbour who needed to make some templates for cutting some oak boards.

And since the order was order a certain amount I didn't pay any carriage charges -- just a picking charge for the single boards.

Interestingly, since I've shown the Artcare board to customers this past week I've used more of those than anything else.
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Post by markw »

John - Mike
Dont have any probs with Nielsens packaging for delivery - Its the nasty flimsy bags the boards themselves are packed in that are the problem - compared with all other makes they are very poor.
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Post by Not your average framer »

markw wrote:To be frank, if I didn't think the Artcare range had a real advantage over other similarly priced boards I wouldn't use it.
Hi Mark,

I agree, I find the same problems. The boards are often damaged and sometimes where one board amounst many is damaged, but the ones on either side are not. Clearly showing that it was damaged prior to dispatch.

Also the quality of Nielsen boards is often disappointing with unwanted particules in the boards. I'm yet to discover any unwanted particules in Arqadia boards, which in my own experience appear to be always of excellent quality.

Apart from the use of zeolites in Nielsen boards the only other reason I still stick with them is the very useful range of colours. However, before I switched to Nielsen I used Tru-Vue boards which had some absolutely wonderful colours available and the all round quality was excellent too!
Roboframer

Post by Roboframer »

markw wrote: Dont have any probs with Nielsens packaging for delivery - Its the nasty flimsy bags the boards themselves are packed in that are the problem - compared with all other makes they are very poor.
Well maybe it's to help keep the cost of the boards competitive. As long as what's inside is OK - and it's fine here - I don't care what it comes in as I don't keep it anyway - used to, but it all ended up pushed to the back of my storage units in big lumps.

Haven't had any problems with particles for ages either, and last time I did they sent me 20 free sheets to replace 5.

The quality and specification without the zeolites meets or even beats a lot of other 'conservation' boards which cost more.
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Post by kev@frames »

we have had all makes of board out of square from time to time.
have to admit that it isnt an issue at all with a CMC, but in pre-cmc days we used to get caught out quite frequently.

Happily today it doesn't matter if a corner is dinged in, as the wizard wastes 40mm on two sides with the clamps any way ....

Hopefully Sam will now send a bottle of scotch as I have promulgated the only single thing to be said in favour of a mechanical clamping system on a CMC :)

Lucozade will do ;)

We never have any damage problems with our own van delivery for colourmount (Ventons) or arquadia, but do find the paper wrap packs of colourmount easier to store upright than the plastic clad arquadia boards, which slip n slide all over the place once you start depleting the contents in a rack.

re particles in boards: we seem to get occasional particles in all makes, although I have to admit we took a two-grand delivery a couple of weeks ago, and I have not noticed any blebs or particles in any of the Colourmount, C0, or arquadia we had in that batch, yet. maybe its a seasonal thing?
osgood

Post by osgood »

markw wrote: Its the nasty flimsy bags the boards themselves are packed in that are the problem - compared with all other makes they are very poor.
Mark,
I'm not sure how the 'flimsy' bags are such a problem for you? How is this issue affecting you?

My Alphamats colours are ordered in ones, twos, fives etc, according to what I need for the week and a few extras for stock, and the company that supplies them packs them in the original plastic bags and then in a double thick corrugated cardboard box made especially for mats.
This box is extremely rigid and tough, but on some occasions the carrier does manage to damage the contents.
When I get them, I take them out of the bags, which are disposed of, and put the mats in a rack where they are stored on edge in a vertical attitude.
Frankly, I am not concerned about the bags at all as I have no use for them anyway.

Occasionally there are some specks in light colours, which is a pain, but these get replaced at no charge, so it does have some nuisance value. I'm not sure that there are any matboard manufacturers who makes 'perfect' mats with no defects, ever, so I'm sticking with Alphamat because of it's properties and quality.
markw

Post by markw »

Ormond - All other mountboards come in substantial bags - I never buy single boards - always buy packs and I expect them to arrive sealed and in pristine condition. Artcare always arrive with the bags ripped. I have had boards arrive with black scuff marks on them - as with others on the forum - one board in a pack damaged - others ok. I just think that a product such as this should be delivered in a sealed undamaged bag - like every other mountboard manufacturer does.
Roboframer

Post by Roboframer »

markw wrote:I never buy single boards - always buy packs .
Not having to do this was a winning factor when I moved to artcare as default.

Who wants 5 sheets of flourescent orange? Not me!

I really don't have your problem with the bag-ripped-open scuffed boards thing.

Some artcare boards, such as their ricepaper range, come individually wrapped too - wrapped in the same stuff - never a problem. But those I do not unwrap and discard the wrapping until I come to use them.

The only opened bags I get contain mixed colours, or packs of less than 5 - and then it's opened and not ripped/torn.

Obviously a problem for you - glad it's not one for me - wonder why that is the case.
osgood

Post by osgood »

markw wrote:I never buy single boards - always buy packs and I expect them to arrive sealed and in pristine condition. Artcare always arrive with the bags ripped.
Mark,
I'm not wealthy enough to buy packs of five of all the colours I use so I buy lots of them as singles.

Am I assuming correctly that your mats come to you, only in the manufacturers plastic bags???

If that is the case, I think the blame for damage must go to the supplier who sends them to you for not packaging them correctly. I am absolutely certain that Bainbridge never intended those bags to be the only form of protection. They supply their product in cardboard boxes to your supplier so your supplier should be using a similar or better product to deliver them to you.

Whatever the packaging is, for you the buck should stop with your supplier. Surely it's their responsibility to supply you with a merchantable product!
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