Pricing mounts. Advice please.

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lampie512
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Pricing mounts. Advice please.

Post by lampie512 »

Hello everybody.
Longtime lurker and first post on the forums.
After long consideration I have decided to begin obtaining equipment and undertaking training/practicing to develop the skills needed to start framing as a business in the not too distant future.
My first purchase, after hearing so many good reports about both the equipment and manufacturer support has been a Keencut Ultimat Gold and I am very pleasantly suprised at the results I'm getting after only a short time using it.

In conversation with the manager of my local, (and very busy), card,gift wrap,candles,RMF shop I mentioned that I had purchased the mount cutter. I have been asked to supply mounts for him to sell with his frames. 10x8 frames with an aperture to display a 7x5 photograph, 7x5 frames with an aperture for a 6x4 photograph for example. They have a developing machine in the shop so they would be in a very prominent sales position.I have also got to know a local photographer who has recently started his own business and he is also looking for me to supply him with mounts.
Which leads me to the point of my posting.
How would you recommend a pricing structure for these mounts?
Is it simply a matter of working out how many cuts I can get from a standard size mount board, dividing the cost of the mountboard by the number of mounts available and multiply by 3 for the retail cost,(with an add on for my time and labour) and then negotiating a price with the shop?
Sorry to be vague and over simplistic but I was planning on developing my skills first, framing primarily as a hobby while studying pricing/business and wasn't expecting to be in a position where potential customers are looking to me supplying mounts less than a week after purchasing the Keencut!

Thankyou in advance for any help and advice, and please be gentle with me.

Nigel
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Jonny2morsos
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Re: Pricing mounts. Advice please.

Post by Jonny2morsos »

The main factor involved if you are cutting mounts on a manual mountcutter i.e. not a CMC is the amount of time you spend doing it.

If you can get a price that shows you a return on your time I think you will be doing very well.

A CMC can probably cut a dozen mounts in the time it takes to cut one manually so I think you need to look for a bit of a niche somewhere.

There are plenty of online sellers of mounts so if you google a few it will give you a feel for pricing.
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prospero
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Re: Pricing mounts. Advice please.

Post by prospero »

From a business point of view, it would be more sensible to get someone with a CMC to cut them for you (at the right price for quantity) and mark them up to sell to the customer.

Unless you want the practice. :D

Cutting lots of the same size mounts on a manual cutter is a very boring job.
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lampie512
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Re: Pricing mounts. Advice please.

Post by lampie512 »

Hi Prospero.
Thanks for your advice, it's much appreciated.
Actually, you hit the nail on the head with your second post.
Only having purchased the mount cutter less than a week ago, practice is one think I certainly need, and will be doing as much as I can.
Especially now I have figured out a technique which enables me to start the cut without hooking, thanks to previous threads on this forum.
I'm under no illusions here, a few pre cut mounts aren't going to put a Porsche on the drive,( or a CMC in the workshop), but as I'm going to be learning how to cut mounts on the Keencut anyway it will be nice to see a return ( however small) while I'm about it.

While I'm in the process of acquiring equipment, undertaking training, and learning the craft, (while still working full time as well),I think the networking and opportunities for future business are going to be the most useful part of this initial enterprise.

My present thinking is that giving the shop an amount of precut mounts on a sale or return basis with them taking a percentage of any sold will be the best way to go.

Thanks again,
Nigel
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Jonny2morsos
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Re: Pricing mounts. Advice please.

Post by Jonny2morsos »

Sorry, don't want to disillusion you but SOR is not a good plan at least IMHO.

Where is the incentive for the shop to sell them if they have not paid for them?

When we first started I framed up some of my wife's flower watercolours for a florist/cafe with prices shown on them. Each time I went in there the owner said they had someone "coming back to look again" or something similar. I soon realised I had done their decor for free! and took them down.

You say the shop owner sells RMF's. I bet he has customers come in who have things that don't fit ready mades and so he could refer them to you or take an order on your behalf for a cut.

We have a warehouse shop right across the road from us that has a complete aisle of RMF's and I get some of their customers come in when thay cant find what they want. They don't usually like my prices but often we will advise them what size frame to buy and cut a mount to suit.

Another good source of framing jobs are shops that sell needlework stuff to cross stitchers. Pay them a visit and offer to frame something up for them to put on display (usually the owners do needlecraft themselves). Keep your photographer friend happy as well and if he is doing a lot of portrait/wedding work then he can sell frames which you can supply him with.
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Re: Pricing mounts. Advice please.

Post by lampie512 »

Hi Jonny.
Thanks for the first reply as well.
Sound advice and not disillusioned at all. I'm just trying to figure out the best way to go about this and appreciate all the help and advice I can get.

As I've mentioned, I'm just starting to purchase the framing equipment and look into getting properly trained and only got the mount cutter a week ago so its come as quite a suprise to have interest from two parties with a view to supplying them with mounts almost before I've got the cutter out of the car and set up!
.
You say the shop owner sells RMF's. I bet he has customers come in who have things that don't fit ready mades and so he could refer them to you or take an order on your behalf for a cut.
That is indeed the case, and it was a comment along those lines which started this off.
School portraits and graduation photos which don't fit his RMF's that customers are bringing in,especially at this time of year. If I can supply him with mounts for these then I get to sell some mounts, and he gets to sell RMF's which he wouldn't normally be able to sell.

Its a family run business and he has already mentioned that one of the family (now retired) used to undertake bespoke framing for them and they still get a lot of enquiries, which when I'm all set up he would happily refer to me/take orders for a cut.

Perhaps it would be a better idea to put mounts into a couple of his RMF's so there is something for the customer to reference to and then place an order, from which he would want a cut. ( The local antique centre takes 7% on items sold from its cabinets so I would expect his cut to be about the same?)

Thankyou for the advice regarding the needlework shops as well. I will certainly bear that in mind for future reference.
I'm looking to arrange a meeting with the photographer to take him a few examples of mounts.

Thankyou both again for your advice and patience dealing with a complete novice in this matter.

Nige
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Jonny2morsos
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Re: Pricing mounts. Advice please.

Post by Jonny2morsos »

Make sure what you take to show is of the highest quality with clean cut bevel and no under/overcut in the corners and no hooking at the start of cut. Good quality mount board is also a must.

The Ultimat Gold has very fine adjustments for you to calibrate for over/under cuts but do remember if you use different thickness boards you need to recalibrate for each one.

Thick mounts look good on photos particularly B&W. If you use thick board get your self some single sided thicker blades (Tech S 015) if they did not supply any with the machine.
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Re: Pricing mounts. Advice please.

Post by prospero »

One point. When making things in quantities, even relatively small quanties, don't forget to factor in the time it takes to actually pack them all up for delivery. If you are working to a tight margin you can easily swallow up any profit in these extra operations. Every second counts. :wink:
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lampie512
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Re: Pricing mounts. Advice please.

Post by lampie512 »

Thanks Jonny.

I'll be sure to make the sample mounts as close to perfect as I can get them.

I got a great deal with the cutter which included a large quantity of mountboard ( colourmount and arqadia), and enough moulding to get me started when I find a Morso and underpinner at the right price/location.
It also came with 2 boxes of blades, both Keencut, and the rectangular ones are the Tech S 015 so theres plenty of practice materials for me to butcher.

The Ultimat Gold really is a quality piece of kit isn't it?, I'm very pleased I bought it.

Thanks again and all the best,

Nige
lampie512
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Re: Pricing mounts. Advice please.

Post by lampie512 »

prospero wrote:One point. When making things in quantities, even relatively small quanties, don't forget to factor in the time it takes to actually pack them all up for delivery. If you are working to a tight margin you can easily swallow up any profit in these extra operations. Every second counts. :wink:
Thanks Prospero.
All noted and logged for future reference!
Luckily, the shop I'm talking to the owner about supplying mounts to at the moment is a stones throw away from home which is a bonus.

All the best,

Nige
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Re: Pricing mounts. Advice please.

Post by Not your average framer »

lampie512 wrote:giving the shop an amount of precut mounts on a sale or return basis
Hi Lampie,

Sorry, but someone needs to put you wise on this one.

Nobody does sale, or return on mounts, it's a losing proposition. There's not enough profit for a small operation to share the profit with anyone on a sale, or return basis. Also the mounts will soon get damaged and shop soiled by being handled while on display.
Mark Lacey

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― Geoffrey Chaucer
lampie512
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Re: Pricing mounts. Advice please.

Post by lampie512 »

Thankyou Mark.
I can assure you that any idea of offering the mounts on a SOR basis has been well and truly binned.

All the best,

Nige
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