Euro 9009 Again

[joe duclos]

Here I go again. I replaced springs, regulator, hammer. When I fire the hammer comes up and jams in front of the wedge. The only possibility left is the front hammer guide block being so worn that the channel is sloppy. I'm looking for a replacement guide block or if anyone in the northeast US has a 9009 for parts I'd be interested in buying. Thanks. I hope everyone had a nice holiday.
Joe Duclos

[JFeig]

Also check the face of the hammer to see that there are no chips missing or gouges. The hammer face can be re-milled flat with a file if necessary.

[Not your average framer]

The hammer block as you call it, appears to consist of two parts, but knowing which part you will be needing might be a little bit more complicated than you may be thinking, as there are earlier and later designs for these parts and they are not direct replacements for one another.

The earlier versions of the Euro 9000 series could only be used with 7mm and 10mm wedges (or V-nails). On these earlier versions, what you refer to as the hammer block consisted of the wedge outlet plate for the NC8 magazine (part No: UP134) and the wedge guide (part No: UP90). Please note that as far as I know, the UP134 can only be used with the NC8 magazine. If you are not sure which wedge outlet plate is already fitted to your machine, then the UP134 is the one which is 8mm thick!

The later versions of the Euro 9000 series could be used with 7mm, 10mm, and 12mm wedges (or V-nails). On these later versions, what you refer to as the hammer block consisted of the wedge outlet plate for the NC10 magazine (part No: UP147) and the wedge guide (part No: UP90). Please note that as far as I know, the UP147 can only be used with the NC10 magazine. If you are not sure which wedge outlet plate is already fitted to your machine, then the UP147 is the one which is 10mm thick!

As you will observe the wedge guide (part No: UP90) is used for both magazine types, although after having a quick look at my own machine, I have not been able to see where this part is located within this part of the machine and since I have never needed to dismantle this part of my machine, it may be wise to check exactly where this part is located to know if it requires replacement or not.

In case anyone is wondering, the equivalent parts on Euro 8000 series of manual machines are part Nos: UP148 and UP04. These are and look like totally different parts, which cannot be substituted for parts on the Euro 9000 series machines.

I hope that this information will be of some help to you.

[silvercleave]

................er if the hammer comes up in front of the wedge perhaps the spring pushing the wedges is too week? Just a thought as my underpinner does the same when only a few wedges left

[Steve N]

Could be time to call an engineer in, in the long run it will save you time = money

[joe duclos]

Thanks to all for suggestions and advice. I found the part number which is 304. I'm going to investigate having a machinist make one. Then I will basically have a brand new machine.

[Townsend]

Hey Mark. That's a serious load of info about the Euro underpinner. Do you by any chance have a service manual, or know where one could be obtained? I have two old ones myself and would like to service them completely and replace any worn parts. I am having trouble getting the top plates levelled in a way that works perfectly after removing them. It ought to be simple, but the removable part of the wedge channel seems to sit slightly proud which makes it hard to get everything correctly levelled. Perhaps the service manual shows the process of getting this right.

[Not your average framer]

If there ever was a manual for any of the Euro underpinners, I am yet to hear of anyone who has ever seen one. I have some pictures of various spare parts together with their Euro Mouldings part numbers and even some pictures of various models of Euro underpinners. I've even seen some Euro pneumatic undepinners which don't appear to match the pictures of any of the normal Euro 9000 range at all.

I am told that during the period in which these machines were produced, the quantity of Euro underpinners sold was quite extraordinary. There are still a massive number of them still in service and fully operational. Not only that, but most of the dead ones are still possible to get back into fully operational condition if the pneumatic cylinders and the hammer are in adequate condition. Obtaining replacements for most of the other pneumatic components and springs is quite easy if you know which companies to contact.

Most of the 9000 series of euro underpinners have both countersunk fixing screws and smaller grub screws in the two nickel plated side plates and the grub screws are for setting the height and levelling of the the side plates. If these side plates are quite a long way out of being level and flush, I would try bring to edges nearest edges of these plates upto flush with the top of the wedge magazine using a small steel rule and then lock this end of these plates in position with the fixing screws.

Next I would get underneath the top plates with a set of engineers feeler gauges (not car mechanics feeler gauges) and measure the gap underneath each plate and the set the same gap for the outside edges of the top plates using the feeler gauges and the outer grub screws before locking the outer edges in place with the fixing screws. This should get things quite close to having everything level, but you will still need to recheck across both plates and the wedge magazine with a steel rule and if neccessary make any small final adjustments.

[Not your average framer]

BTW. Most of the standard pneumatic components used on the 9000 series of Euro underpinners were manufactured by Cruzet. I used to be a defence and high tech systems design engineer and although the manufacturer of the Euro underpinners had removed the markings from these components, I recognised what they were the moment I saw them because I have designed all manner of things using most of the better known brands of pneumatic and hydraulic components.

There aren't many older pieces of pneumatically operated equipment which can't be fixed if you know where to look for the right bits!

http://www.crouzet.com/documents/pdf_pn ... onents.pdf

http://www.crouzet.com/documents/pdf_pn ... ectors.pdf

http://www.crouzet.com/documents/pdf_pn ... onents.pdf

I think that some of the items in these PDF's should look familar to pneumatic Euro underpinner owners!

(this post was orginally added as part of the previous post, but to make sure that no one interested had missed any thing which might matter, I made it into a new post)

[Not your average framer]

This might prove useful to someone.

Euro 9000 underpinner spares.jpg (910.16 KiB) Viewed 9013 times

[prospero]

One thing I find can happen with by manual 8001 model is the twin guides that the 'ears' of the front wedge seat into can get gunged up thus hold them back a tiny amount. Taking the little plate on the bed out and running a knife blade in the grooves can help. Also, (on my machine at least) there is a knob underneath that adjusts the hight of the floor of the wedge chute. Jiggling this may help.
Could be the wedge feed spring has got a bit weak. A new, slightly stronger one might help. The springs on the Euro are fairly generic.

[Townsend]

Thank you guys for being so helpful. I feel like I'm part of a secret society when I read posts like these. I've had my machine (bought second hand....some breakaway company apparently manufactured it and it is painted red rather than blue, so, although identical to a 9011, it is a mongrel rather than a pure breed!) for over twenty years with no real problems outside normal wear and tear. I actually took delivery of a new Cassese 299 about ten years ago and sent it back when I found it did not drive wedges as straight and true as the old Euro machine. Which brings me to another subject. Wedges. I was offered "Euro" wedges (I think they were actually rebranded JW wedges or something), which jammed, especially when stacked, but the Universal Alfamacchine Power Twist ones work pretty well for me, although not as well as the Euro ones which seem to be out of production. What is anyone else using? I would love new soft plastic inserts for the Auto pressure pad if anyone knows where they can be sourced, in fact if there are any size pads for sale I would like to buy them. Is the magnetic pad supplied by Lion for Cassese machines usable on our Euros I wonder and has anyone generated machine drawings of components which they would care to share. Sounds like we could all get together and form a resource centre to keep these fine old machines going.

[prospero]

I've been using Inmes universal 10 and 7mm. I've had a few jamming issues with them so I have re-ordered Cassese 'Master' wedges which I have used in the past.

Of course I do tend to be a tad lavish with the glue so it may not be the wedges at fault.

[Townsend]

I spray a bit of silicone lube around the area......makes getting the glue off a bit easier. It's also easier to get in at the allen key to release the plate if there is a bad jam.

[Townsend]

Meant to say that I found the Inmes wedges jamming frequently when stacking.

[prospero]

btw.... It's worth getting a few spare screws for the wedge plate. 4 x10 mm if I remember rightly. The hex is very easily rounded off which makes them a PITA to remove so if you spend half and hour trying to remove one it makes sense to put a new one back in.

[Not your average framer]

You would think that all universal wedges would be exactly the same and would perform equally well regardless of which ever brand you buy, but I've never found this to be true.

I'm not going to name any names, but my experience tends to suggest that the price paid for the wedges is often an indicator of the quality of the wedges and smoothness of operation.

[prospero]

I have been using Inmes wedges for the last year or two in my venerable Euro manual. Ever since Lion stopped doing Casesse stuff. They work OK apart from 10mm ones tending to jam toward the end of a stick. 7mm ones no problem. Anyroadup, Lion were out of stock recently so I ordered some Casesse Universal ones from Wessex. They don't jam. In fact they work as smooth as silk. Triple stacking no sweat.


Just thought I'd mention it.

[Jamesnkr]

You would think that all universal wedges would be exactly the same and would perform equally well regardless of which ever brand you buy.

It was particularly galling to buy a box of Alfamachine Universal wedges from Lion and discover that when the box arrived it had a sticker on it 'not for use in Alfamachine Minigraf.' Too right; it fired them in two at a time.

[IFGL]

thats just the same as casesse selling AL wedges, which they do, they do not fit in casesse underpinners.