Morso F Guillotine

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evanstheframe
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Morso F Guillotine

Post by evanstheframe »

First let me introduce myself, my name is Lyn (male in case the name threw you) I set up as a hobby framer to frame my own paintings a year or so ago. I use a laser chop saw ( cheap one) a bench guillotine and a Cassisse underpiner. As things are going I now frame all the paintings for my local art group and word is spreading (may be I'm to cheap).
Anyway, to the point. I feel its time to step things up and get better at what I do. I want to give people a top class frame and not let myself or them down. Therefore I am thinking of buying a Morso F Guillotine. I would like some feed back on the use of this machine. I have heard it is the main item for anyone who deals with frame making. Please could you tell me if this is true as its a great deal of money to part with. I want to make a go of this and want to get it right. Many thanks in advance to anyone who replies.

Lyn (ETF Evans The Frame)
Alzibiff
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Post by Alzibiff »

Lyn - I too am a hobby framer and have a similar set up to yours using a hand mitre saw and bench guillotine to cut the mouldings.
To the professionals on this site - please correct me if I am wrong but ... by upgrading to a MORSO, you will be able to cut moulding lengths quicker but not necessarily improve on the standard of the finished frame - that depends on how accurately your bench guillotine is working at the moment. One of the keys to a good frame lies in accurate cutting in terms of both length and mitre angle.
If you are getting more work than you can cope with, you will need to obtain tools which can improve the speed of your production - the MORSO should certainly help here but these tools are not cheap and need more room than the tackle which you have at the moment.
This is my first post to this forum after months of watching - not too sure on how the professionals view us hobby guys but I too would certainly like to break into the commercial market.
Alan
markw

Post by markw »

Lyn
You will get a much better cut using a Morso - another huge advantage - it doesnt fill your workspace with sawdust. You can often pick up secondhand Morso's but they tend to hold a good price even when they are very old as they dont seem to wear out. Having said that, if you do buy second hand you may have to buy new blades if the machine is realy old - at the very least you would need to have the blades sharpened.

You will find that many profesional framers started their businesses as a hobby, deciding to go proffesional you are right to look at the service you offer and the quality of work produced. You may find some of the comments in the forum on pricing work usefull. If you produce a proffesional job the cost of materials can be quite high - remember you need to make a realistic profit if you want to build a good business.

For second hand kit try looking at some of the trade journals - The picture Business or Art Business today [/url]www.abtonline.co.uk[url]
many suppliers can be very helpful.
Good luck in your new venture
Dermot

Post by Dermot »

I have one for sale less than one year which has had old very little use…….including the left arm support…..if you are interested……..you would most likely have to come across on the ferry to collect it as it would cost more than the boat fare to ship it……..

Reason for sale is that I’m retiring from picture framing after 10 years to concentrate on other business interests……..all my framing equipment and supplies are for sale….

Drop me a email at pictureframing@iol.ie or Tel: +353 87 2575059

Regards

Dermot
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John
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Post by John »

Hi Lyn and Alan,

Welcome to the forum. I am sure that you will get lots of useful advice here.

You will usually find one or two items of framing equipment for sale on Ebay.

Dermot, sorry to see that you are leaving us. Always enjoyed your contributions both here and out there in the greater Information Superhighway. Best wishes for the future.

John
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Merlin
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Post by Merlin »

Hello to Lyn and Alan

Welcome, and good to hear from you guys. Yes to copy Mark, I started out as a 'garage' industry, very quickly outgrew the workshop and moved into a retail shop on the high street...

As the saying goes "You get what you pay for". There is nothing wrong with a hand mitre saw, but I will say, they are not consistent, not only in the cut, but also in the measurement of the frame sides. whereas the Morso is. Every single time. They are solid work horses. It is worth the investment..

Do not be put off or frightened by the apparent 'hard' approach that some of the regulars have written on here. Some but not all of the things they say I agree with. At the end of the day, we WILL help. No matter what the subject on framing, or even how silly it seems, I am sure that I have asked it.

By having a knowledgable professional approach you will - slowly - gain the reputation and more work..
On the flip side. if you produce shoddy work, you will - quickly - lose your customers and get a bad name.

If it helps, it took me 5 years to turn the corner, that was a long haul and many times I asked the question "Is it all worth it". Now I can say. "Yes it was".

Good luck in your ventures. Keep the questions coming, that is what the forum if for.
John GCF
evanstheframe
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Morso F Guillotine

Post by evanstheframe »

Just a quick update. I have just got my Morso. Thanks to everyone that replied with advice on the subject. If anyone would like the 3 pounds of grease I took off the new machine let me know :lol: .

Lyn (ETF)
markw

Post by markw »

Morso grease eh! must be something you can do with it. Maybe you can find a dane whos pining for the smell of Morso grease from the home country?
Did you get a spare set of blades? I always put a little sticker on the machine to indicate when sharpened blades where fitted - I then mark up my spare blades with sharpening date - its all too easy to forget and put dull blades on. Treated with care my blades stay sharp for 7-8 months - but as i buy the majority of my moulding as chop the morso doesnt get heavy use.

Hope you are pleased with the results that you get, dont be suprised if it takes a little time to get the feel of the Morso - like any bit of kit you have to get used to the way they work, adjustments on stops etc.
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Merlin
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Post by Merlin »

Hi Lyn
Welcome to the world of consistent mitre's.

I will echo and reinforce Marks words. Blades !!!!! Take care of them and keep them sharp..

They do need to be professionally sharpened by specialist equipment. You cannot do it yourself with an oil stone !!!! :P I had a long discussion with a framer who complained that his Morso was not cutting properly. He did remark that he sharpened his own blades coz it was cheaper.

Lions do a good service.

Let us know how you get on. Good Luck
John GCF
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Post by Alzibiff »

Well .... Lyn got me going! I am now looking for a second hand MORSO F but as ever am on a limited budget. That said, I understand the need to put something away for a professional sharpening job on the blades. So to my question - is there anything to watch out for when purchasing these machines second hand? Are manuals easy to come by or not necessary? Moving on - at 90Kg, are they transportable by car - I have a roomy Citroen C5 but maybe this weight is on the top side.
Thanks for any advice.
Alan
evanstheframe
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Morso F guillotine

Post by evanstheframe »

Hi Alan
I had mine delivered from "Framers Equipment" they also sell recon morso's. www.framersequipment.co.uk They were top notch on advice and happy to answer all my questions. You can I was advised get one in an estate car but after having help to carry mine down the garden I would make sure someone is following you with a spare gallon or two. They are heavy.
Also today I found out that it's true the blades are very sharp "he says typing with his left index finger in heavy plaster". All I did was try and move the rebate stop in to touch the moulding. However, as I know now, move it in by holding at the top and not the base. I lifted my finger and dragged my nail along the blade. It cut straight through the middle of my nail and into the flesh below. Before you ask, no it did not hurt THEN because the blade was so sharp. But now it throbs big time. Guess its now a waiting game for the nail to grow out past the cut, thats if I dont lose it all together. I wonder how many who read this are saying "Been there done that". Anyway take care around those blades. I learnt the hard way.
On a brighter note. What a difference this machine makes. Not only on time but on quality of finish. I now feel as though I am heading down the right road to being able to offer a far better product. I know that "Welsh Framing Supplies have a second hand one in as Roger phoned me as he knew I was in the market for one. If you want their number just say. You will have to sort out the price with them. Good luck in your hunt. Dont give up they are well worth having.

Regards,
Lyn (ETF)
markw

Post by markw »

Lyn - I doubt theres a framer out there who hasnt nicked themselves on a morso blade - I suppose its a good warning to treat the blades with respect. If you push the foot pedal down to the floor you can lock the blade down using the sliding stop above the pedal, that keeps the blades well away from easily cut fingers. Like any sharp tool dont be tempted to get too close, i managed to cut about a 1mm off the top of one finger during a stupidly careless moment - i didnt notice until the moulding started to have large red blobs on it.
Azibiff
Moving a morso should be relativly easy if you have an esate car - or i suppose you could hire a van. support bars can be removed and blades must be removed for safety. As above, if you lock down the blade pedal the whole lot becomes fairly easy to handle by two people. Morsos are very simple bits of kit - there are a few springs that need to be replaced very occasionaly, although i have never replaced any. the ratchet handle that moves the blade forward/backwards loses its springyness - and then doesnt push back into the ratchet notch - this is easlily replaced and can often just be bent to regain its tension. replacing sharpened blades can be tricky untill you get the hang of it - and handling the sharp blades is obviously a job that requires caution - my advice is to position blades on morso - dont fully tighten bolts - untill both blades are in position and that you feel that you have a good balance of the position at the front of the blades - no one blade higher - close fit at front edge of blades - blades fitting well with the body of the morso.
I cant say that i have any experience of adjusting the other components as they have always been fine on my machine - any problems and someone on this site will always advise. Most morsos come with a spare set of blades. Not sure how you tell how much life is left in a set of blades, but they do wear out and are expensive to replace - i would try and asses how much work the machine has done - if its very old you could possibly need new blades - I think you can look up year of manufature on morsos web sight if you have the serial number of the machine. Spare blades should be kept in a wooden box - if they dont come with one Lion sell them - check the blades for deep Nicks - if someone has been cutting down old frames they can get very badly damaged by nails. ive seen the results.
Dermot

Post by Dermot »

You will have no problem moving it in a C5, I bought my first Morso (old third hand machine) sight unseen and moved it from Cork to Dublin in an old Nissan Micra I had at the time.

A Morso is virtually indestructible and will last for many years, there is one in use in one of the South American countries which was built in the early 50’s and which survived a fire……as I said they are one thing you are unlikely to ever need to replace.

The reason I sold my old machine and replaced it with a new machine last year was that I was planning (I have now changed plans and retired from the framing business) to open a shop and employ a framer and I was afraid that the old machine would not meet current safety standards (there are more safety guards on the new machines) something you most likely would not need to worry about if you are the only one that will use the machine.

If you send Morso the serial number of a machine they will send you a manual, and ALL PARTS are still available for machines regardless of how old it is.

See Morso here www.morso-guillotines.dk this is a great site you can even find out how old your machine is using the serial number. Also see this http://www.morso-guillotines.dk/facts.htm/

For sharpening the blades in the UK Lion have a custom built machine for doing this job, but an alternative is to find the company who sharpen the blades for the printing industry in your area, I’m talking the bigger type of printer not your high street copy/print shop.

Pete Bingham (one of the guardians of the Framing Industry) wrote a wonderful article a few years ago for one of the framing journals about keeping your Morso in tip top condition and getting the best out of it, I have a copy of it (if I can find it) I would be happy to pass it on to someone if they would take the responsibility for making copies (if this is legal) so that others on this forum could share the information, please email me at pictureframing@iol.ie if you want to take on the task, I will post details on the forum of who I pass this article on to, I will not take on the task of issuing the copy myself as it is in colour A3 and costs me about €8.00 and postage the one time I made a copy for another framer and I never even got a thank you note for my efforts…….as I said I’m happy to pass on the original to someone.

Rgs

Dermot
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Post by Alzibiff »

Thank you for all of the facts, links and advice. This machine is clearly the Rolls Royce of its type by all accounts. I am certainly going to look seriously for a second hand machine now - and will no doubt be back here for more help once on the commercial road. Regards and thanks again - if there is any more advice or comments, please carry on with this thread.
Alan
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The Morso F

Post by SquareFrames »

Hi Folks,

Most people bespoke framing use the Morso, an excellent machine, but its has its flaws and could be better engineered in oner area. For instance:

1. The rebate supports could have been longer by about an inch for extra support and saving unneccessary adjustment
2. The rebate supports could have been closer to the blades, by about 1.5mm, just far enough away to clear the downward and upward movements
3. They also could have been self levelling, saving fiddley re-adjustment, mostly on the left one

So you if know any engineers who could do this job..do what I am about to do..........get it done

I heard one person remark once that they should be made to accommodate a 5' moulding......if it comes to that, get it chopped service, how often do we need to cut 5' or more?

I was asked yesterday by one of my students, and a few days ago by a lovely Welsh man, how to maintain the machine....well as Pete Bingham once said in his Picture Business Agony Column........'Give It a drink'
On a weekly basis, give it a drink of 3in1 oil, (on every moving part) its the best product that I have tried so far...(is there anything better..answers on a postcard) I dont put any grease near it, I wiped all that stuff off and drenched it in 3in1 oil....both my Morsos work excellent and havent given any trouble.

One thing! Some people are now finding out that the blades are sharp, for goodness sake..keep your fingers away..I hear its quite sore and no joke looking for a finger nail in a box full of waste...(Its not you Lyn...some other nail...less person). Thankfully it wasnt her finger.

Steven
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Alzibiff
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Post by Alzibiff »

Is that 5' or 5" ?

Alan - about to purchase his MORSO F
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Morso

Post by SquareFrames »

Hi,

Inches, not feet, maybe my finger slipped.

Steven
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Dermot

Post by Dermot »

Steven

Here is a link to the Morso accessory page for self adjusting rebate supports http://www.morso-guillotines.dk/mitre_r ... upport.htm I’m not sure if this is what you have in mind.

You can bump out the size of the supports by using 6mm Perspex engineered to size or shape, Perspex or some similar hard plastic is better than metal in case the blades come in contact…..less damage and plex is easier to work with.

BTW it may be worth contacting Morso direct….I know I got extra high rebate supports from them one time…….there is a good chance that they have already engineered what you are looking for………..then again given that you have Belfast the home of engineering in these parts on your door step it may be easier to have it done locally …….good luck anyway…

Dermot
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Morso F

Post by SquareFrames »

Hi Dermot,

Already been taking to Claus from Morso, he is sorting me out, etc.

The chap that was making the extar long rebate supports for me...I am not honestly sure what material hes making them out of, but all will be revealed withon the next few weeks when hes back in the country. I will let you know the outcome.

Steven
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Down School of Picture Framing http://www.downschoolofpictureframing.co.uk
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Alzibiff
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Post by Alzibiff »

Hello again - back to the "I just got one" part of this thread ...

Picked up my "new" - previously enjoyed MORSO F yesterday - what a solid piece of engineering it is!

My question concerns the measuring scale which only goes as far as 50cm.

I have read the operating instructions and understand how to set the scales to read either the inside measure or outside frame measurement. However, I can only set the scales to measure a maximum of just less than 490mm before the stop beam comes off the measuring scale on the table. Is it possible to measure frame lengths greater than 500mm in some way or do I need to purchase a longer scale which will attach to the table and replace the 500mm scale? (It almost looks as though the scale on my machine has been cut down at some point in its history).

Thanks in anticipation of your answers - Alan
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