Novice advice needed: hand finishing wooden frames for oils

[Nagg2000]

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Hi everyone!

I'm in my first few months of framing and have quickly branched out into handmade frames as a friend of mine is an artist.

I have done a few of her paintings already & we have both been happy with the end result so far, considering I'm a beginner (I'll attach a photo as an example), but I'd like some advice on how to improve...if you'll help!

At the moment this is the process I use:

Underpin the moulding
Fine-filler the joins
Sand with fine paper
Gesso (acrylic) x 2 layers
Sand with fine paper
Paint with 2 layers of (usually) F&B
Wax

This also applies to the wooden slip.

I am unhappy about two things:

1. The joins - I want these seamless and to blend in completely with the rest of the frame.
2. The wood grain is still pretty obvious - or am I aiming for something impossible?

On a slightly different note, I am also unsure how to price because this type of framing is much more time-consuming (& messy!!). Any advice would be much appreciated.

Thank you all!

[Benhen]

Very nice.
I am a newbie too.
See what you mean about the corners --- blasted corners. More layers more sanding.
On a taste issue, I'm not usually mad on white and white slips. But that's personal.
How would it look in ebonised -- quite dramatic probably.
Best wishes.

[Nagg2000]

Thanks for your reply BenHen.

More layers makes sense, as does more sanding. I have heard mention of using tissue paper to mask the joins, but I'm not sure how that would work effectively. Perhaps I'm looking for the Holy Grail and all that's needed is more elbow grease!

The white slip was the artist's specification - although it's F&B Dimity with oak wax. Haven't come across something being ebonised...what is it?

Do you have any words of wisdom with regards to pricing?

[Graysalchemy]

When I do this sort of thing I usually use about 5 layers of ripple paint (a very thick white acrylic) sanded in between and 2 or 3 base layers before I add wash layers or gilts and finally wax. Sanding sealer may help to fill the grains as wood as wood a liquid mix of poly filler, but I never bother. I use sanding pads with the finest grit as well.

Unfortunately they become as labour of love and IMHO there are easier and more profitable ways to frame pictures.

[prospero]

Looks pretty good to me from where I'm standing. Very understated and very 'arty'. In a nice way.


I don't think you need agonise too much about the corners. A lot of the work on a frame like this is sanding. A few quirks and imperfections can add to the appeal. Lends a touch of humanity to the whole affair. That's my excuse anyway.....

Unless I deliberately want a woody finish I first fill the grain with fine surface filler. I use the 'no-nonsense' stuff from Screwfix. Get a stiff-bristled but mostly worn out brush and apply the filler. Dipping the brush in water makes it easier to apply, but don't water it down too much. Scrub it in well like lathering with a shaving brush. Then get a cloth. I find J-cloth types work well. rub it vigorously all over, working the partly dried filler into the grain but removing as much as poss from the surface. It's worth spending a bit of time doing this as it will cut down on sanding. Almost polish the frame with the cloth. Change cloths when they get overloaded with the wiped-off filler. At the same time get some filler on your fingertip and work it into the corners. Smooth off with a wet finger. With a bit of practice you can get a nice radius on internal corners. Let dry and give it a good sanding with quite coarse sandpaper.
I used to use acrylic gesso when I first embarked on hand finishing. It's good stuff but hard as hell's door knockers. Very tough to sand. Great for textured finishes. Nowadays I use Wickes smooth ripple paint. (As many on this Forum will be in no doubt about. ). It's cheap (ish) and quite flexible when dry. It's meant for painting walls and ceilings so it has plenty of body and will fill fine cracks. It's easy to sand though. A couple of coats gives a base smooth enough for most finishes. Add more and it will get smoother still. It all depends on how smooth you want. After this I top coat with artist's acrylic - mixed to the desired colour. Sometimes I use a two-stage top coat. Solid basecoat with dragged/stippled wash on top.
Let dry, quick buff with a yellow duster and a dab of wax and you are done.

[Not your average framer]

It looks great in the picture!

I don't make much effort to fill the grain, as I like to be able to work fast, but when it's all finished you can not see the grain, so there's never a problem. With a job like this I usually use a 50/50 mix of Craig & Rose chalky emulsion and Amsterdam acrylic paint. I apply this using a lightly loaded brush and then stipple the painted finish. A lightly loaded brush results in quite a fine stippled finish, quite often two good coats is enough.

I don't sand down the finish, but rub it over with a pad of kitchen tissue using meths and mixed with about 5% acetone and this results in a nice smooth surface in no time at all. I have learnt that it is important to be able to work at speed to make a reasonable profit. As for getting good results with the corner joints, I try to avoid the need to fill my corners by making really tight corners when joining the frame and if necessary sanding any surfaces which are not flush, before I get around to applying any finish to the wood at all.

If you need to do any filling, or anything like that, do what Prospero says. I been following his methods with ripple coat for more years that I care to remember with easy and complete success.

[Graysalchemy]

I should have said it does look really good well done.

[JFeig]

Traditional gesso made with whitting and animal glue (rabbit skin) is a lot easier to sand smooth. Check the forum for previous threads about gesso.

[GeoSpectrum]

I think that is very nice, perhaps a couple more coats of ripple paint and abut more sanding! What profile is that?

[Nagg2000]

Thank you all so much for your replies...full of great tips and advice. I think I need to try different methods out on some scraps to see which result I like best.

Prospero: is this the ripple paint you're talking about?...

http://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-Colour-@ ... L/p/122446

Geospectrum: is profile the moulding? (sorry...still not quite there with all the lingo!) If so, it's one my artist friend found from Unique Wholesale:

http://www.unique-wholesale.co.uk/384a- ... -moulding/

As I said, I really appreciate your replies. I look forward to experimenting.

Can any of you help with my pricing query...or is it not the done thing on here to talk about money?!

[prospero]

That's the stuff.

It only comes in white but you can tint it with acrylic colours.


As for pricing, OK to discuss retail prices but mention of trade prices are restricted to the Members Only section.

[vintage frames]

I heard tell that there are people who go to all the trouble of soaking and melting rabbit skin glue to add to whiting in order to make gesso. Then they slap it on to pictureframes, sand it down with sandpaper and end up with a finish as fine as silk.
I've even seen them wet the high points of the gesso and just as it dries, polish the gesso to a marble finish.
Now who could be bothered with all that?

[Jamesnkr]

Prospero/NYAF/GA Do you prepare lengths of moulding with ripple paint and sand, before making the frame and then tidying the corners and then finishing, or do you make the frame and then do the ripple paint and sanding? I'm of the view that sanding is easiest in full lengths, but I'm open to persuasion otherwise. It's certainly less of a faff to take lengths out of the finishing room for sanding than it is to take full-sized frames out.

Also, using ripple paint I find that it's inclined to leave a rather textured finish, so I dilute it in order to help its self-levelling properties. So first coat a diluted priming coat, second coat nice and thick, a bit of a sand, third coat thin to fill the brush strokes of the second and then another sand. But I wonder whether a different sort of brush would help, I'm using a 1" natural bristle brush ("no nonsense", 50p but they don't seem to do them any more) or whether it's just poor technique with the paintbrush.

Vintage Frames: first we walk and then we run (rabbet, run rabbet run, run, run.)

[DEEPJOY]

Hi Nagg

I think your attempt is top draw and I am full of admiration of framers who try hand finishing their frames. It is something I want to get involved in but struggle with the effort verses the chargeable amount received to do the job. For me, it is easier to reach for a factory finished moulding and offer that as a quick fix which makes more commercial sense given the limited time I have.

I do get the aspect of adding value to the raw material and as long as you are able to charge for it, then I am sure it can be profitable.

The one thing about picture framing I could not ever appreciate, is the many individual skill sets you need to practise before you can build a frame that is worthy of putting a price tag on it. Learning to use each machine for example, especially the mount cutter - an art in itself. The Morso, underpinner, glass cutter etc. To then learn the art of hand finishing your frames, with another area of the workshop to do it in, is a bridge too far for me at the moment.

[prospero]

James. You are spot on with the priming technique. The right amount of water and the right amount of coats will produce a very smooth base. Not as smooth as 15 coats of gesso, but that amount of work is only called for if water gilding. As for texture, that is part of the versatility of the ripple paint. Applied thickly and with random brushstrokes you can get a quite nice 'rough plastered wall' effect. You can stipple it. You can work it with various instruments including fingers to produce a variety of texture effects. In fact I sometimes bulk it up further with powder paint to get really high relief textures.

The best brushes I've found for the job are Harris Easyclean. They have synthetic bristles and are nice and springy. The natural bristle brushes are softer and soon lose their shape. But they are great for stippling speckled patterns and for dragging washes. I use them for gilding. They soon get knackered but they are very cheap.

[prospero]

Ripple paint and fingers.

[DEEPJOY]

Wow - I am loving this.

Is there any good youtube tutorials that give you the start and finish of the process?

[vintage frames]

Prospero - you keep doing this!
I like to disagree with much of the approach you take on frame finishing; but then you go and post up astonishingly clever and innovative examples of your work.
How come you never went with the more traditional methods of gilding, etc?

[prospero]

Just awkwardness I suppose.

I do appreciate the look of a finely gilded frame. But, it has to be said, one looks much like another. And to be honest not all artwork benefits from a lot of bling.
I sometimes do bare frames for a customer who's missus is very good at water gilding. I am quite content to let her.

Most of my work is for the trade. I have to be practical. If I started faffing about with gesso pots and acres of gold leaf I would have to charge 5 times as much for the frames and they wouldn't look 5 times better. Leafed frames are also very delicate. Artists humping piles of paintings round exhibitions are going to ding the frames. Leafed frames are a pain to repair, that's if you can repair them at all. Powder gilded ones are easy.

As a matter of interest I was browsing around the Gold Leaf Supplies website the other day. I pay about £50 for a kilo of imitation gold powder. On another page there was 23.5K real gold powder. About £100 a gram.

[GeoSpectrum]

Prospero, will to promise, before you retire to the great frame workshop in the sky, to write down all you know and publish it. Please.