Professional Picture Framers Association UK & Ireland

[yorkframing]

I would question what you get for the £100 per year?
I see the benefit of an organisation but what do the PPFA provide other than a website?
It seems you will need to put a lot of work in to set up the UK & Ireland chapter so why not just create your own UK & Ireland based organisation. You can then reduce the membership fees and have a much higher take up rate. Membership fees would then go towards organising things this side of the Atlantic.
Just my thoughts
Steve

[Whitewater Gallery]

I know nothing about the history of the trade associations within this industry but I will type on regardless!

The Fine Art Trades Guild includes framers? I am guessing that some framers must feel poor represented by them and hence are possibly promoting the idea of the more specialist PPFA?

Is it not worth lobbying the FAT to better represent the framers? Strength in numbers etc?

I would have thought that one strong trade body with a voice for the art industry as a hole, but with active subsections, is more likely to make a difference rather the separate associations for the framers, galleries, printers, and any other areas I may have missed!

Just a thought....

Actually the sun has just come out in Polzeath so....

[Roboframer]

Some wonderful ideas - not! They've all been suggested and some even tried to an extent.

Someone is actually DOING something different instead of beating their gums and I hope it comes off in a big way.

.

[pramsay13]

Are you joining, John?

[Roboframer]

I will be, yes; the annual fee will be entered in to my pricing software and it will increase the average job by an amount that does not have a coin to the value, well, not a silver one anyway.

[Grahame Case]

If anyone in central Scotland feels like coming along to our first networking event you are more than welcome - it's on the evening of Thursday 28th April - it's free with free refreshments.

Visit https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/professi ... 4410421227 for more information and to RSVP

[Ian Kenny Framing]

Hi,

I’ve noticed that there hasn't been an in depth reply to Whitewater Gallery’s question re the difference between Fine Art Trade Guild and PPFA.

Before listing the differences, I’d like to say that I am now in my 27th consecutive year of Guild membership, so it must mean something to me. It is only within the past couple of years that I have been fortunate enough to be in the position where I am able to give something back to the Guild, and hopefully in some way benefit the Fine Art Trade as a whole. (That’s my declaration of interest!)

For 27 years, I have taken on board a lot (not all) of what I have learned from the Guild, and used many of the tools it provides to raise my business profile. It takes work to do this, no matter if you are a Guild or PPFA member. Ultimately, what you get out of a trade association membership is directly related to the effort you put in. So membership of any trade association is most definitely not suited to everyone, however membership of the Guild suits me. I have taken from the Guild exactly the benefits I wanted, and left others alone.

I agree with the comments made later by Whitewater Gallery. I firmly believe that “one single trade body representing the art industry as a whole – but with active subsections – is more likely to make a difference, rather than separate associations” for artists, framers, galleries, printers and other areas. Strength in numbers, yes.
That’s exactly what the Guild is – an association that represents the Fine Art Trade as a whole.

Apart from the window sticker (I’ve attached a photo of the Guild window sticker) and the website listing, here’s what I think some of the differences are between the Fine Art Trade Guild, and PPFA, which is well respected within the Guild.

The Fine Art Trade Guild is a not for profit association which is wholly owned and run by its members. PPFA is commercially owned.
The Guild is independent.
The Guild has been established for over 100 years.
The Guild sets, and is constantly developing, internationally recognised standards for framing, mountboards, tapes & adhesives and fine art prints.
The Guild GCF(APF) examination is a one to one examination which includes a practical element. PPFA CPF exam is a written exam, with no practical element.
The Guild now requires its qualified framers to commit to membership, and to Continual Professional Development to retain their GCF(APF) accreditation. This is the same criteria as is applied by professional organisations worldwide, and the CPD concept is widely understood by consumers.
The Guild is based here in the UK, and can be contacted during normal weekday working hours.
The Guild set the standards to which mountboard is produced today. In the words of a non-Guild member, these standards make it much easier for a framer to buy the correct board for the job.
The Guild runs an annual Art + Framing convention with seminars and workshops, here in the UK.
The Guild publishes Art + Framing Today 5 times a year. This magazine is geared to the UK art and framing industry.
The Guild logo is more widely recognised in the UK than the PPFA logo.
The Guild operates a UK based legal advice line.
The Guild operates a technical advice line for UK framer members.
The Guild supplies consumer information leaflets which are aimed at educating and informing UK consumers about professional framing standards.
The Guild has a proactive Fine Art committee which looks after the interests of member artists, and a proactive Framing Standards and Qualifications Committee, which looks after the interests of framer members.
The Guild operates ArtSure – the independent quality assurance scheme for digital prints. This scheme benefits artist, printer and publisher members alike.
Most major moulding, mountboard and CMC manufacturers, wholesalers or suppliers are Guild members.

On the flip side of the coin:
The Guild membership fee is more expensive than the PPFA membership fee for UK members. However this situation is reversed in the USA, and indeed in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Iceland, Brazil and most European countries, where Guild members benefit from an overseas membership rate, as UK based PPFA members do here.
Last, but not least, the Guild has limited resources. PPFA also has limited resources. Both organisations have to work with financial constraints.

My apologies for the long post, but I hope that in part, I have answered a bit more in depth the question originally raised by Whitewater Gallery, and hope the first PPFA networking event on April 28th is a success.

Ian Kenny GCF(APF)

[Grahame Case]

Hi,
My apologies for the long post, but I hope that in part, I have answered a bit more in depth the question originally raised by Whitewater Gallery, and hope the first PPFA networking event on April 28th is a success.

Ian Kenny GCF(APF)

You are more than welcome to come along with the boys in the workshop for a coffee Ian, we won't bite

[Whitewater Gallery]

Ian

Many thanks for the comprehensive reply. We joined the Guild last year so am reasonably aware of the Guilds aims though I mainly joined to be able to sign up to the Artsure scheme. I think what prompted my original post was why now open a UK arm of the PPFA when sure the Guild covers picture framing as part of its remit.

I am new to this industry so am unaware of the history, but Robbo's comment makes me think that bespoke framers do not feel that the Guild is representing their interests as they might like?

At the moment it feels like this industry is trying to find its way. The Spring Fair no longer has many framing related exhibitors, instead there are roadshows from different distributors, but none of these have a comprehensive selection of products on show so you have to attend more than one to compare all that is available.

Personally I still think strength in numbers is usually the best way forward.....

[Graysalchemy]

Perhaps Ian you should be asking why there is call for something different, and why despite the changes the guild still isn't attracting members.

The simple reason why I wont join either is that they don't represent the industry as a whole but a rather narrow spectrum, everything is based towards highstreet and bespoke framing.

[Ian Kenny Framing]

Thanks for the invite Grahame - I've known you long enough to know your middle name isn't Suarez! To be perfectly honest though, I can take everything I need from the Guild, so to join another trade association would be of no benefit to me. I hope the evening goes well for you though. Regards to Mary.

[Roboframer]

Welcome to the forum, Ian!

I was hoping this wouldn't become a guild/PPFA comparison thread but I suppose it's unavoidable and I can't help but reply to some points raised.

I think competition is healthy and there would be nothing wrong with belonging to more than one trade organisation but PPFA is framing-dedicated; FATG simply is not.

The PPFA has its own forum which is well subscribed and where advice is available 24/7 from some awesome framers, conservators and educators - many of whom also share their knowledge on the equivalent of this forum across the pond - The Framers Grumble - and also do on this forum from time to time. You, just for example, with your 27 years guild membership, only registered here today. The FATG did have a go at getting a forum going, it was pathetic.

The PPFA is the oldest framing- dedicated trade organisation in the world.

It has the word's "Picture Framer" in and therefore the logo instantly tells the punter you belong to something relevant to what you do. Stop anyone on the street and ask them what someone belonging to the FATG might do; they won't say picture framing. In fact, then ask them what fine art means .... in fact ask me, I've no idea, what is it? I know what a picture framer is though, everyone does.

They are far more KISS principle - the emphasis is on preservation - if you know how to do things well its a foregone that you'll also know how to do things not so well.

The FATG changed the name of the framers committee to the "framers standards and qualifications committee" - that's not simple and there's more to framing than standards and qualifications. ABT has also changed its name to something more long-winded.

PPFA (simple/self explanatory) has "Picture Framing Magazine" (ditto) and although they own PPFA which is for profit - so is ABT !

The CPF test may be written but requires different knowledge than the practical GCF test, is far less daunting than having your work examined and - again - is simpler, not in knowledge but to administrate - I believe it's possible to do it on line.


That'll do for now.

[Framerpicture]

I mainly joined to be able to sign up to the Artsure scheme...

I see it doesn't cost much extra to join Artsure , but do you feel you get much benefit from being a member? Admittedly I'm no longer a FATG member, but I'd never heard of it until you mentioned it in your post.

[Whitewater Gallery]

I see it doesn't cost much extra to join Artsure , but do you feel you get much benefit from being a member? Admittedly I'm no longer a FATG member, but I'd never heard of it until you mentioned it in your post.

To be honest I don't think that it has increased sales as yet but that is only because we have not had time to put anything in the gallery to promote Artsure. We do mention it in conversation and it has helped to give customers confidence in what we do.

We put A5 certificates on the pack of the framed prints.

a.jpg (184.96 KiB) Viewed 14276 times

Most of our trade is from visitors who live all over the country, so would have a problem returning things should there be a problem, so we feel that being Artsure and FATG members helps to show that we are credible and professional.

[markw]

Not with a hanger that tight

[Whitewater Gallery]

Not with a hanger that tight

Interesting, never thought to check that on youtube or the Forum! Most of our prints are quite heavy so once hung, even though it is low stretch cord, it will stretch at least 1/3 of the way up the frame so I thought it better to start tight

Just checked with The Library of Professional Picture Framing book beside me here and there is no reference to how tight the cord should be, what is the standard?

[David McCormack]

Hi WG, this chart is a good reference http://theframersforum.com/pmwiki/pmwik ... ingMethods

[Tudor Rose]

http://www.fineart.co.uk/article/artfac ... d-552.aspx

Same diagram when you scroll down through the document, but a bit more information too.

[Not your average framer]

What happened to the original subject of this thread? I'm not objecting to the subjects of "Artsure" and the correct methods for stringing a picture, but they have rather highjacked the original thread and perhaps a gentle reminder might be in order.

Artsure and correct methods for stringing are worthwhile subjects which could easily be discussed in the general discussion section, but the purpose of the announcements section is a little different and the original subject does appear to have been replaced by other subjects.

[Grahame Case]

Cheers Mark - getting back on topic - the first of the new PPFA member listings for the UK are now active on the PPFA directory http://ppfadirectory.com/listing/result ... +&keyword=

ive already had traffic to my website from the PPFA directory