which paint / painting frames corners etc

[Roy]

Hello

I'm not much good at framing (yet?) but good at asking questions - well I suppose the forum needs both sorts

Firstly, I painted a frame with some coats of ripple paint as undercoat, then dark violet acrylic (mixture of blue,red,black) - but with only minimal handling some bits of white are showing, so I'm wondering two things:

1) I didn't need to fill the grain (ie: using filler/ripple paint) so should I have simply used two or three coats of the acrylic topcoat, or is there a recommended base coat (if so what is best colour for light/dark topcoat)

2) Maybe the acrylic I've used is not best quality. I bought some 500ml tubs from a fairly well known, small supplier with no makers name on them, at a cost of just over a fiver each, and it did seem a little on the thin side. I see some use Everest paint from Lion, but looks pricey to me. Can anyone recommend a decent, fairly priced acrylic, or maybe emulsion from Wickes etc is ok (but would prefer some basic primary colour so I could mix, which I don't think Wickes etc would do?)

Another thing is that I painted the frame after it was made up, and although the paint looks pretty good, even for me, the build up in the corners is not so pleasing. I have a couple of questions on this please:

1) Someone on the forum said that after painting, to give a nice smooth finish, they finish with a mixture of something like meths + 5% acetone rubbed onto the paint with a rag - I'm wondering if corners could be improved with this method, and rubbing the mixture a little more into the corners to reduce the paint build up?

2) I would prefer to make the frame before painting etc as I've had a couple of frames that were wonky and needing a little bit of filler and sanding on the corners. My worry is that if I painted before making the frame, then found the corners weren't great, it would be too late. Any preferences?

3) I know it's usual to sometimes run a marker pen on the mitres so the light wood doesn't show on a less than perfect join - I'm wondering whether anyone uses a little acrylic (ie: if using bright yellow paint for the frame, could you use just a little on the mitres?)

Also, Wessex are about an hour from me, and wonder what their mouldings are like - just want to ensure I usually get decent straight mouldings

Many thanks

[David McCormack]

Hi Roy, I've never had paint rub off... maybe you are putting the paint on too thick? What sort of profile are you using? I have to admit I use a lot of flat profiles which means you can sand the corners so the join just doesn’t show but more difficult on fancy profiles. Is it fancy profiles that your paint builds up on?

I always prefer to paint after I've joined the frame, but others may say it depends on the painting technique used. I paint obeche and tulipwood frames, some from Wessex and most from Rose and Hollis. I use Farrow and Ball tester pots (matt) and often mix to get the colour I want. I don't use an undercoat, the first coat is undiluted and sanded when dry to deal with any raised grain from the water based paint. The next two coats are thinned down with water with a light sanding if needed. Finally two coats of clear wax thinned down with white spirit and applied with a brush (I just dip the brush in the spirit and then in the wax tin).

I'm sure you'll get more help from NYAF & Prospero

[standenfineart]

Acrylic paint drying and curing are not the same thing. It can take up to 4 weeks for acrylic paint to fully cure in other words reach full hardness. Perhaps it was still too soft for handling even if surface dry.
Everest is very expensive but it is very good quality. You might try Colourman Paints which work and distress quite nicely or my preference generally is Casein, bought (Plaka/Kolner) or home made - it stays workable for longer, rubs down without peeling and looks better.
For me definitely make the frame, fill where necessary and then paint. Build up in the corners is I am afraid a matter of skill and practice but it certainly helps to have quality brushes and the right thickness of paint.
Wessex are good for the odd stick of moulding. If you buy and collect you can make sure you get a straight one.

[prospero]

The top coat acrylic I use is mostly Daler-Rowney system 3. Sometimes Winsor&Newton galleria. Not much between them as far as quality goes, but the Daler-Rowney stuff come in a pot with a nice wide mouth that you can get a biggish brush in.

What ever you buy go for decent quality stuff. I've tried cheapo stuff before and it does tend to rub off. Proper artist grade paint should be as tough as old boots. If you buy it online and in 250/500 ml tubs it's much cheaper than high-street stores. I get black and white in 1ltr pots.

The idea is that you use ripple paint (which is about 20 quids for 5 litres) to build up a smooth base. If you take your time at this stage you save
on the amount of the more expensive top coat you use. One tip is to tint the ripple paint with a dollop of acrylic colour. I've found that a bit of Raw Umber acrylic will nicely knock the edge off the brilliant white ripple coat. You get much better coverage with the top coat - 2 coats is usually enough. 3 with some colours. Any more and you are just wasting paint.

It's nice to be able to gently radius the corners on a hand-finished frame. But take your time on the preparation to build up a good smooth 'blank'. If you do this the top coats will go on better. You should be able to recoat with acrylic within an hour or so, but it's advisable to leave overnight before going to the next stage - gilding or stippling/dragging dilute washes on top.

A lot of the work that goes into this type of frame is sanding. Don't skimp this stage. It's dusty and it's boring but it pays dividends. Eliminate all the lumps and bumps and general niggly bits at this stage. The top coats are the 'downhill' stage.

btw. I use lots of foam sanding pads. For some reason the DIY sheds tend not to stock them or they charge the earth for them. Buy a big boxful from an online supplier and they are far more economic. I tend not to sand top coats. If you get the basecoat smooth you don't need to. If you do want to shine up the top coats use very fine steel wool. You want to polish rather tan remove paint.

[Roy]

Great info, thanks

I'll look at the Daler-Rowney stuff, and also the casein (not sure if this has advantages over acrylic but from what I've read it sounds ok?)

Regarding casein, I'm looking into it but it looks like you can buy it in powder form and just add water - then colour with powder pigment, so sounds a cheap option?

Ta, Roy

[Not your average framer]

I can't really add much more to what Properro has already posted, but the meths and acetone just enables you to distress a top coat finish to reveal another colour underneath.

I'm not surprised that you find this all a bit confusing, reading about something is not the same as see it being done. One of these days, i will have to run another course, when there are enough people to do one, but don't ask me when this will be.

[baughen]

But how are you going to know when there are are sufficient potential students?

[Roy]

I would certainly take the course - I learn much quicker hands on.

Still on the subject of paint, the Sennelier Acrylic Abstract paint seems to look good, and
at £2.00 for 120ml from HobbyCraft it seems a good price. I might start with these in the main
colours + a few more as inexpensive, then go on to Daler-Rowney or whatever - but these might
do the trick?