Just a short question to add to this post if you wouldnt mind.
What backing board is used most by the framers on this forum?
I have been using MDF for a while with a protective undersheet. However, as I dont as yet have a proffesional cutter I find it quite time consuming to cut by hand. I have just tried a few Aqua Core boards far easier for me to cut and greater protection.
Your comments are always well received and appreciated.
Framer's Grey Board etc.
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WelshFramer
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absolute framing
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I am using 3mm mdf, but am now having second thoughts due to comments here.
I always use a conservation barrier board. Have thought about art-bak, but not sure I want to go that way ,
Mainly because I think it looks cardboard-y and a bit cheap, also not so rigid.
Also I use quit a lot of deep boxy mouldings, and prefer to put d-rings in the back so frame is flush with wall.
Also, with mdf when you fit frame you can angle staple slightly and through board which holds everything tight and gives nice solid feel.
I have checked with commended framers study guide, and they say mdf okay also at http://www.fineart.co.uk/FramingStdMuseumLevel.asp.
Soooo....will continue for time being, but would appreciate thoughts.
Ta v.much!
I always use a conservation barrier board. Have thought about art-bak, but not sure I want to go that way ,
Mainly because I think it looks cardboard-y and a bit cheap, also not so rigid.
Also I use quit a lot of deep boxy mouldings, and prefer to put d-rings in the back so frame is flush with wall.
Also, with mdf when you fit frame you can angle staple slightly and through board which holds everything tight and gives nice solid feel.
I have checked with commended framers study guide, and they say mdf okay also at http://www.fineart.co.uk/FramingStdMuseumLevel.asp.
Soooo....will continue for time being, but would appreciate thoughts.
Ta v.much!
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osgood
Palitana,
You asked for thoughts, so here are mine:
MDF has no place in framing anything that is not temporary!
There are so many other better products available for the same purpose, even in UK! ;o)) ;o))
I don't have any understanding of why framers persist in using this vile product when other types of backing are better and far easier to use.
You didn't say what barrier you are using, but no barrier will stop the outgassing from the MDF in the frame package!
MDf is extremely acidic and also soaks up moisture from the atmosphere like a sponge, which leads to mould growth, which is bad.
Squillions of frames are out there in the known world that do not contain MDF and the backings in those are held in quite satisfactorily, so you don't need to be concerned about that.
Please change to something else immediately if not sooner. Robo and the other people from your neck of the woods can advise you what to use and where to get it.
You asked for thoughts, so here are mine:
MDF has no place in framing anything that is not temporary!
There are so many other better products available for the same purpose, even in UK! ;o)) ;o))
I don't have any understanding of why framers persist in using this vile product when other types of backing are better and far easier to use.
You didn't say what barrier you are using, but no barrier will stop the outgassing from the MDF in the frame package!
MDf is extremely acidic and also soaks up moisture from the atmosphere like a sponge, which leads to mould growth, which is bad.
Squillions of frames are out there in the known world that do not contain MDF and the backings in those are held in quite satisfactorily, so you don't need to be concerned about that.
Please change to something else immediately if not sooner. Robo and the other people from your neck of the woods can advise you what to use and where to get it.
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Merlin
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Palitina
Art-Bak conv in the back of a picture looks the same as MDF when finished properly.
You will find your work load so much easier, as MDF is not easy to cut, even with a wall mounted cutter.
The Art-Bak (Corri-Cor Mk3) has a vapour (waterproof) barrier on one side, which is slightly shiny (and looks good). It is just like cutting Mountboard. It is also quite rigid when in the frame.
Your comment of your frames fitting flush to the wall, concerns me a little. We always put corner buffers on the backs so that the frame stands off the wall by a few millimeters so that there is an airflow across the back. MDF - as Ormond states - Just loves moisture and soaks it up like a sponge. Without that airflow gap you are just encouraging mould to grow.
Cost wise, I think you will find that both MDF and Art-Bak are within pennies of each other. At the end of the day, the customer pays the difference anyway.
Just my thoughts.
Art-Bak conv in the back of a picture looks the same as MDF when finished properly.
You will find your work load so much easier, as MDF is not easy to cut, even with a wall mounted cutter.
The Art-Bak (Corri-Cor Mk3) has a vapour (waterproof) barrier on one side, which is slightly shiny (and looks good). It is just like cutting Mountboard. It is also quite rigid when in the frame.
Your comment of your frames fitting flush to the wall, concerns me a little. We always put corner buffers on the backs so that the frame stands off the wall by a few millimeters so that there is an airflow across the back. MDF - as Ormond states - Just loves moisture and soaks it up like a sponge. Without that airflow gap you are just encouraging mould to grow.
Cost wise, I think you will find that both MDF and Art-Bak are within pennies of each other. At the end of the day, the customer pays the difference anyway.
Just my thoughts.
John GCF
As one of the many newbies on this forum, I find the information here invaluable and hope that others have the savy to web search when they want knowledge of any framing problems and so find you guys to help them.
I have never used the greyboard, because I read about it both in the Lion catalogue and other places and instantly dismissed it as being nasty rubbish. Of course, I thought I was okay using MDF, but quickly changed to Arkbak once reading up on it here.
I do read the product descriptions in Lion's catalogue, as I always want to find out as much as I can about a product and try as best I can to use the best materials possible, but I always do a search here to get the difinative.
Being an artist, I want to put my artwork in the best home it can get, not in some cheap horrible frame next to things that are going to eat it! Why on earth would I want to ruin a drawing which has taken me upwards of 50 hours to do!
I have never used the greyboard, because I read about it both in the Lion catalogue and other places and instantly dismissed it as being nasty rubbish. Of course, I thought I was okay using MDF, but quickly changed to Arkbak once reading up on it here.
I do read the product descriptions in Lion's catalogue, as I always want to find out as much as I can about a product and try as best I can to use the best materials possible, but I always do a search here to get the difinative.
Being an artist, I want to put my artwork in the best home it can get, not in some cheap horrible frame next to things that are going to eat it! Why on earth would I want to ruin a drawing which has taken me upwards of 50 hours to do!
Dot
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markw
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Moglet
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Not used ArtBak yet (as usual, only found out about it thru forum!!! 
), but I'm going to migrate to it.
I notice from the Lion catalogue description, that ArtBak is 2.35mm thick by comparison to the 3mm thickness of MDF that you're using, Palitana. I know that .65mm difference isn't much, but with so many mouldings having insufficient rebate depth, every little helps!
As others have said, MDF is a PITA to cut.
Current ArtBak users, would I be correct to assume that ArtBak is lighter than MDF? If I am, then it would possibly be a better bet for larger frames when material weight becomes a much more significant factor.
), but I'm going to migrate to it.I notice from the Lion catalogue description, that ArtBak is 2.35mm thick by comparison to the 3mm thickness of MDF that you're using, Palitana. I know that .65mm difference isn't much, but with so many mouldings having insufficient rebate depth, every little helps!
As others have said, MDF is a PITA to cut.
Current ArtBak users, would I be correct to assume that ArtBak is lighter than MDF? If I am, then it would possibly be a better bet for larger frames when material weight becomes a much more significant factor.
........Áine JGF SGF FTB
.Briseann an dúchas trí shuiligh an chuit.
.Briseann an dúchas trí shuiligh an chuit.I think we are a rare breed! I was at a workshop a few months ago and it was like knocking my head against a brick wall trying to tell them about using good materials and not getting that cheap frame from the carboot or market or Asda etc. They just think - cheap is best as it keeps their costs down. They don't even seem to understand that if mounted and framed nicely, that it will show off their artwork so much better and even enhance it - now why on earth would they want to do that then!!! 
I have even spoken to some that say, well I use conservation mountboard then go on to say that they stick it down to the hardboard/mdf ( )
Dot
I have even spoken to some that say, well I use conservation mountboard then go on to say that they stick it down to the hardboard/mdf (
)Dot
Dot
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absolute framing
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Hi Aine,
I use art-bak conservation and it is lighter than MDF.
It is also bowed (curved) , so you get a nice bit of pressure on the sandwich (Glass, top and undermount) after fitting.
Thickness over MDF is not an issue.
As for large pieces it is grand, but my preference is for 5mm A-Free foam board, ir the rebate allows for it !
stephen
I use art-bak conservation and it is lighter than MDF.
It is also bowed (curved) , so you get a nice bit of pressure on the sandwich (Glass, top and undermount) after fitting.
Thickness over MDF is not an issue.
As for large pieces it is grand, but my preference is for 5mm A-Free foam board, ir the rebate allows for it !
stephen
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Dermot
You can also use Correx board...........the same stuff as sign makers use for making “House For Sale” signs............is very light. cuts like a dream, waterproof (great for damp outside walls in Ireland) and it is inexpensive..............I gave Dave at GLENWOOD the details he my be now stocking it............it is available in big 8 x 6 ft sheets or there about’s
This is the stuff that Jim Miller on the US Grumble talks about they call it COROPLAST or Polyfluted Board
Lion also have it in their catalogue 42 page 39 #5446A and 5446B
This is the stuff that Jim Miller on the US Grumble talks about they call it COROPLAST or Polyfluted Board
Lion also have it in their catalogue 42 page 39 #5446A and 5446B
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Roboframer
Conservation backing mountboard and backing board
Hi Guys,
Second post from a newcommer, this is addictive!!
Picked up on this thread and wanted to ask the following;
I am trying to standardise my framing and would like to only use conservation grade mountboard. Was using Daler but am going to move over to Colourmount due to local supplier (thanks for the tip Aine, Glenwood Mouldings in Newtownmountkennedy, they were very helpful, just have to see if they stick to their target of middle of jan for sample mouldings?)
1) If you are using conservation mountboard do you use the same mountboard for the backing mount? This seems an expensive way to do things? I just think that this is wasting mountboard that I could use again for something else.
2) What do others use for the backing mount if using a conservation mount? and then would you use a conservation backing board behind this? or is that going overboard? (excuse the pun!)
3) In conservation framing is it acceptable to hinge artwork etc directly to something like artbak conservation as suggested by Roboframer below? I've not heard of that, is it common practise?
Sorry for numbering questions, it's a habit from my previous life!
Thanks again, I am learning all the time!
Grover
P.S. Has Dermot gone into hiding!!
Second post from a newcommer, this is addictive!!
Picked up on this thread and wanted to ask the following;
I am trying to standardise my framing and would like to only use conservation grade mountboard. Was using Daler but am going to move over to Colourmount due to local supplier (thanks for the tip Aine, Glenwood Mouldings in Newtownmountkennedy, they were very helpful, just have to see if they stick to their target of middle of jan for sample mouldings?)
1) If you are using conservation mountboard do you use the same mountboard for the backing mount? This seems an expensive way to do things? I just think that this is wasting mountboard that I could use again for something else.
2) What do others use for the backing mount if using a conservation mount? and then would you use a conservation backing board behind this? or is that going overboard? (excuse the pun!)
3) In conservation framing is it acceptable to hinge artwork etc directly to something like artbak conservation as suggested by Roboframer below? I've not heard of that, is it common practise?
Sorry for numbering questions, it's a habit from my previous life!
Thanks again, I am learning all the time!
Grover
P.S. Has Dermot gone into hiding!!
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Roboframer
I don't particularly like artbak conservation - just a better option, plus less labour, than MDF with a barrier.
The undermount is as important, if not more so, than the window mount - it covers the whole area - allbeit from the back - not just the perimeters.
For a true conservation job I would use 4 ply artcare as an undermount AND artcare foamcore.
The undermount is as important, if not more so, than the window mount - it covers the whole area - allbeit from the back - not just the perimeters.
For a true conservation job I would use 4 ply artcare as an undermount AND artcare foamcore.
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Moglet
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Hi Grover,
Glad to hear that Glenwood are helping you. They're great for providing moulding chevrons 'n' stuff, so all going well, you'll be sampled up mid-January! Tip: if you need further samples on an ad hoc basis, and Glenwood are busy, if you ask them for a small length of the samples require, they'll usually be happy to oblige, and you can cut 'n' pin them yourself for speed.
If a job is not "full" conservation, and rebate depth for a job is tight, Colourmount have both conservation and museum grade "barrier boards" in their range which can be used in place of a normal 1400 micron undermount.
Glad to hear that Glenwood are helping you. They're great for providing moulding chevrons 'n' stuff, so all going well, you'll be sampled up mid-January!
Tip: if you need further samples on an ad hoc basis, and Glenwood are busy, if you ask them for a small length of the samples require, they'll usually be happy to oblige, and you can cut 'n' pin them yourself for speed.If a job is not "full" conservation, and rebate depth for a job is tight, Colourmount have both conservation and museum grade "barrier boards" in their range which can be used in place of a normal 1400 micron undermount.
........Áine JGF SGF FTB
.Briseann an dúchas trí shuiligh an chuit.
.Briseann an dúchas trí shuiligh an chuit.