How many mouldings do you offer?....

[Justintime]

My apologies Rainbow for being obnoxious and inflammatory.
I didn't think it was an accepted practice, I stand corrected.
Again, I'm sorry for the way in which I voiced it.

[Ed209]

Our most popular you range is “Domino” from “Lion”
Cheap and easy to cut/join ideal for artists etc. or just everyday affordable framing. Available in grey,black,white 20mm & 25mm widths and shallow and deep rebates options.
Grained finish so easy to touch up if required.
I would say it probably accounts for 70% of our orders.
We don’t currently have a vast range just a few golds,silvers,natural. Coloured and the customers always find something they are happy with and I sometimes think they appreciate not being overwhelmed with too much choice.



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[Not your average framer]

Nobody needs to say sorry for anything. Everybody will have their own preferred way of doing things. I was just trying to gently nudge things away from a full blown argueement and the difficulties that have followed from that in the past.

I would add that I think that it's praiseworthy that so many framers seek to work to such high standards, even beyond what is normally necessary. Many of us are established enough to obtain very good deals on conservation mount boards and very sensibly work to a high standard a our normal working methods, but it is very easy to give newbies the impression that they need to achieve unnecessarily high standards.

It's just a thought and no big deal, but I know that the forum's administrator is particularly concerned that this conservation methods only thing can become a divisive issue and even deter some would be members from joining , or continuing with the forum. In a lot of ways I'm sorry to bring this up, but I hope nobody with feel limited by this and just continue to feel free to enjoy and express themselves as freely as usual.

[Not your average framer]

As I am now getting my new shop premises sorted out, while also trading at the same time, I am reviewing which mouldings I will be stocking and displaying. I am particularly trying to pick mouldings that are versatile and not limited to only framing a few subjects, to be honest this is far from easy, but my new shop is not very big and I have to be careful to fit everything into it. So I trying to reduce things to not too many.

As many of you will already know, a lot of my stock is aim at hand finishing, so my needs are not going to be particularly relevent to that many others, but there will be some mouldings that you will find useful to have as stock items and it will take time to work out which ones will work well in your own business.

Try and identify the ones that your various customers regularly chose, but don't get too overloaded as customers are not always easy to predict. As I have already indicated versatility of uses is something to be aware of, but like everything else, when starting out it is too easy to make decisions that seemed good at the time, so a little reserve can be a good thing.

[Abacus]

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[prospero]

When you start out full of enthusiasm it's all too easy to look at a reps sample case as a big box of chocolates.
Many mouldings I bought on a whim in the past I still have. Some date from early '90s. At one time I had 600+ samples
on the walls. OK, looks impressive but maybe 5% of them got used regularly.
So I would say don't go mad. Try to build up a core stock of 'everyday' mouldings with a few extra 'showy' examples.
There are 'magic' mouldings. Ones that are versatile, good to work with and the right price. What these are depends on
the individual's business model, but you know them when you find them.

Over the years I have virtually eliminated factory-finished moulding. I just don't buy them. Many reasons, not the least is
the deteriorating quality compared to 'back in the day'. I have a 20' x 8' wall covered with hand-finished samples, but I regard
them as 'examples' rather than samples. They are for my my reference rather than the customers.

Working this way suits me. I won't suit everyone.

[Steve N]

You will after a while get your own 'House Style' a combination of what you like and is easy to work with and what your customers like or ask for, it's a lot easier now than when I first started framing, when you could only buy packs of moulding, now you can by the lenght, so much better, you don't ens up with stock you don't want or which is a very slow mover. I have loads, far too much, now it's like 'Can't see the wood for the Trees', I have so much stock that I can't find mouldings so I order some , then two hours later find some

My lease is up in 20 months, so will be down sizing and moving on, so will be trying to move old stock over the next 20 months, will be doing a lot of 'Reduced to Clear' offers, I'm not going to be taking on any new range of mouldings

I agree that not every bit of work needs to be framed to conservation (or higher) standards, some customers are not bothered about conservation framing, they just want to be able to hang it in the downstairs loo without spending loads on it, and I'm happy to take their money for a budget job

[cleaver]

Re how many mouldings, I have a stock of over 250 samples. This is a lot less than some framers, but the main thing is that it suits my way of working. I don't try to be "all things to all men" so I don't need to stock samples for every type of framing job there ever might be. I'm happy with my niche, and 250+ suits that niche. Very occasionally a customer wants a particular colour that I haven't got, and I offer to try and source a sample for them, which so far (touch wood) has been successful and the customer really appreciates the effort.

Hey Rainbow, that's good to know; my gut instinct is around 200 or so. Prospero's 600 - with about 5% used regularly - is an eye-opener. I can feel another thread coming on "How many mouldings do you use regularly?"...don't worry everyone, I won't!!

I, too, want a core holding that I'll know and trust (in time), and add to as specific requests come in.

I also agree with not trying to spread myself too thin (shame, as there's a lot of me - so I would go a long way!). I'm trying to view framing through a customer's eyes - as that's what I am ATM. What I mean is I don't want to overwhelm them with too much choice, but then I want there to be enough options.

Some fascinating insights from all these replies - very much appreciated, all.

There's a lot more to this framing caper than you think, isn't there?!

[Rainbow]

When I started framing commercially in 2015, I can see from my original web site that I had less than 100 frame samples. Very helpfully I’d been given a list of the top 150 frame styles by a mouldings supplier, and I chose my initial set of samples mostly from that list, with a few others that I liked the look of. As time went on, I filled in where I felt there were gaps, with samples from other suppliers as well. I feel as if 250+ is around my optimum number. I’ve now got a suitable range of blacks, whites and browns, in a variety of shapes, sizes and styles, and a lesser number of coloureds and metallics which aren’t as popular with my customers.

Exciting times, Dan!



@ Justintime - I appreciate your apology, thank you and no worries.

[poliopete]

The question in the op is always interesting and valid.

Being a framing geeks who has read ever post in every category on this forum, (staring from the back) this question has regularly been discussed.

When I first started framing all of my moulding was milled out by Travis & Arnold as they were then. They had an enormous workshop along side the river in our village. All their imported timber came in that way. By simple hand finishing, e.g. staining, painting and waxing it was possible to offer numerous choices from a very low stock level and, at the same time, cover a lot of wall with chevrons.

As things progressed, reps' started calling in (the Magnolia group etc.) with displays of f/f mouldings and, like a kid in a sweet shop, I was easily tempted, and also business was very good, I purchased more and more.

My point is that in those days stock was money in the bank, fellow traders where always saying, "if you have not got it you can't sell it". I don't think this maxim applies so much today. If you look at other businesses and the way they keep stock levels to a minimum they only order in when they have a confirmed sale.

Perhaps that is why using "chop" service is getting very popular and worth considering, minimizing waste and reducing capital outlay.

[sisters]

We have around 500.
far too many, agree with steve n , cant see the wood for the trees!! and yep finding it after ordering.
With chop its so much easier as you don't have to stock it.
No matter how many 'white' frame samples you have, you will never have the one the customer wants.

I try not to carry every size option/ colour so if a moulding has 5 different profiles and 5 different colours I will get each profile in a different colour then explain that it comes in different options , after a while you can tell which colour/ profile is worth continuing

[cleaver]

Hi sisters...many thanks for your reply!

May I ask a couple of things on chop: (1) what does it add to the price? (2) Do you experience many problems with quality of cuts - and general quality? Of course, no need to name names on suppliers when answering - it'd just be very handy to know....especially what it adds to in-cost.

I realise there will be some savings, as there's no waste with chop. But if you needed precisely a 2 metre length of moulding (no waste) to do one frame v buying the same amount as chop, what kind of price difference would you expect (roughly).

[Rainbow]

... if you needed precisely a 2 metre length of moulding (no waste)

Mouldings are sold in 3m lengths, theoretically. In practice, if you order a 3m length, you might get 3m (and to be fair, I usually do), but you could also get a delivery of 2.7m, two lengths of 2m, or any other random length. There might be a flaw in the middle of the length. It's generally best to have a little lee-way in the amount of moulding you order. You could try putting MIN and MAX amounts on your order, but these aren't always followed.

[cleaver]

Thanks Rainbow.

I just meant how much of a premium is paid for chop...all things being equal (I understand they rarely are!)

For instance: a moulding costs £10 a metre, and I need 3 metres for the frame. Therefore moulding in-cost is £30 (assuming every inch of the moulding is useable) Or.....to buy the same moulding from the same supplier as chop would cost ....£40??? Am I being too heavy/light there?

Are chop prices calculated per cut, or does the price/complexity of moulding come into it?

As I say, just trying to understand how much chop adds to moulding cost (forgetting the waste side of things).

[poliopete]

"How much of a premium is paid for chop..."
There are many things to take in to consideration, time saved, not only in cutting your self, but in unwrapping full lengths, checking for dings, returning dinged moulding or working around creating even more waste. Reducing capital outlay by stocking less.

Your other question regarding prices. I would prefer not to quote prices in this section. I will suggest you do what I do and check a couple of suppliers sites who do display prices for lengths, box quantities and chop. If the moderators feel its ok to quote prices in this section, or prefer to move this thread, whatever is fine by me.

In my experience the quality of cuts is superior because more professional machine/saws are used.

It's worth checking previous threads on here and the Grumble about the benefits of cutting with twin bladed saws. If I were in the framing business,as a few years ago, this, along with a good website and a computerized pricing system, is the way I would go

[Ed209]

Chop can be very cost effective on a lot mouldings and as Peter says the twin blade saws do a superior cut on certain mouldings than can be achieved on a Mosro.
Not sure about the wrapping bit, The chop I receive has enough packing to fill a ocean on its own.
About 70% of my moulding is chop, I first stated using as storage was and still is a big problem my ceilings are only 2.4M high and the only wall that is over 3M long is the fire breast wall so my high up rack protrudes from the alcoves and projects about 400mm in front of the fire breast bit.

[cleaver]

Pete, I purposely didn't name specific mouldings when I asked for the price differential, as I realise it's business-sensitive. I.e. I could have been asking about one of the cheapest, most expensive or middle-priced mouldings. I understand that the forum needs to keep things generic, unless it's on the Members Only section.

As to asking suppliers, I did ask one and got the answer that was basically 'it all depends'. (!)

I just hoped someone on here would say something as simple as: 'it generally adds X% to the pro rata length price if you go chop (I wasn't trying to expose any sensitive trade secrets/practices).

Sorry if I gave the impression of asking people to be indiscrete. Have a lovely day, fella.

Ed. thanks so much for your illuminating answer....really surprised how much you get on chop....but it makes perfect sense the way you explain it.

[poliopete]

Dan said, "I just hoped someone on here would say something as simple as; "it generally adds X% to the pro rata length price if you go chop"

Sorry, Dan, I was a little blurry eyed when I read your post first thing and missed that question and it's been a long day, but I have quickly checked some invoices I would say chop adds between 50% to 70%. Rainbows point regarding moulding lengths is a good one. Over the years I have received lengths ranging from 2.5m - 3.3m

Hope this helps.

Peter.

[cleaver]

Pete, absolutely zero reason to apologise.

I've been reading this forum for quite a while (well before I signed up), and it's plain as day what a lovely bloke you are.

In fact, I don't think I've ever seen anything untoward on this forum (maybe I'm looking in the wrong places!), which is a miracle for the internet!!

Right, I'm off to continue binge-watching 'The Shield' (final season....me & the Mrs are already getting withdrawal symptoms! )