CMC - basic info please

[topcat]

Apologies if this topic has been covered before.

I have never used a CMC but have been toying with the idea of buying one. none of my local competition has one and my thinking is that it could make me stand out from the crowd as well as increasing what i am able to offer (hopefully increasing profits too).
I have been running my own framing business since 2014 and my turnover last year was about 62k, so it's still fairly early days.
I'm just about to finish paying off my van and am wondering if a CMC would be a good long-term purchase for the business or not.

Am i too small an operation to make this worthwhile? new or second hand? brand? model? any info really appreciated.

I'm based in Morecambe, Lancashire. If anyone in the north west has one and would be willing to let me visit and see their CMC in action in person that would be great. Do wizard or similar exhibit at trade shows?

Any and all advice welcome. Thanks.

[Abacus]

Hi there

Here’s my £0.02 worth.

I bought a busy, successful picture framers almost exactly 10 years ago. Two full time framers, plus me.

The system was pretty good, one farmer spent all their time assembling completed framing jobs. The other framer and I did the rest.

Mornings were spent cutting mounts on our fletcher manual mount cutter and doing the glass and backs etc. Afternoons spent chopping and pinning before passing the work over for assembly.

As I’m sure you’re aware, the key to a good mount from a manual cutter is threefold:


1) the outside must be square
2) the marking out must be accurate
3) the insert and output of the blade must be spot on

Now, I’m pretty good with a ruler and can wield a Stanley knife so off I went.

Unfortunately I’m not as good as I thought I was! Lots of mistakes were made and expensive mount card chucked away. If I got the outside right and the marking up right, I often got Overcuts.

So, I bought a 2nd hand valiani mat-pro (the pneumatic manual cutter). What a revelation! No more wasted card. This machine uses a head which runs on rails, so the aperture is always square. An end cutter allowEd me to get the outside square.

Then a 2nd hand cmc came up for sale, a wizard 8000. I upgraded to that and we’ve never looked back. We now have a 9000. A large mount takes 12 seconds to cut!

Double mounts are cut joined together so no positioning errors. Multi-apertures are a doddle. Fancy mounts can be done really easily (although I’d guess 95% of mounts are single rectangular mounts)

If I’ve forgotten anything I’ll post again

Good luck

Vince

[grahamdown]

Hi,

I bought a second hand (refurbished) Gunnar CMC from Gunnar - the main driver being the number of requests i was getting for 3.5mm mount board and although i used to cut it by hand there were expensive errors. My CMC cuts 3.5mm board without errors as well as all the other boards - including foamboard.

I'm only a small framer but have never looked back and never regretted it; especially when someone turns up and wants 40 windows cut in a mount

Good hunting.

Regards,

Graham

[Justintime]

It looks like Wizard will be at the Art & Framing Roadshow on 2nd Sept at Newmarket Racecourse.

[topcat]

Thanks all for your replies.

Graham - did you opt for the Gunnar in because it can cut the thicker boards?

Another reason I’m considering a CMC is to save my hands from cutting the mounts. I’m 32 and have been working as a framer for 16 years, but I also have a couple of health issues. Although it’s not having a big impact on my hands yet my doctor assures me I have the early stages of arthritis and am a prime candidate for it to continue to progress.

Vince - would you still recommend a cmc if you were a one man band as Graham appears to be and I am?

Thanks Justintime I’ll have a think, it’s a fair slog from where I am.

Cheers
Tom

[Abacus]

Yes I think a cmc suits a one man band as well. The time saved frees up time to do other stuff.

The wizards also cut jumbo boards which comes in really handy.

[Steve N]

When I started my own business 11 years ago (after working for other over the last 20 years) the CMC was the first bit of equipment I got, even before the workshop, and my business was based around that CMC, 50% of my work is online, also do a lot of trade work for artist and photographers , I would rather cut 200 mounts than make 10 frames, there I said it now
Don't be under the misconception as some people think, that having a CMC is like having another employee, it's not, someone has to load the machine and unload it, it will not do it itself
But like everyone has said , they are accurate and can do repeat work, multi windows in both single and double mounts is like falling off a log
Go for it if you can afford it and also you're far enough away from me as to not be a competitor

[topcat]

Thanks, Steve. Great reply!

[grahamdown]

Hi,

Yes, as far as i'm aware its only the Gunnar and Valiani that can cut angle cuts and straight cuts on 3.5mm board and 5mm straight cuts on foamcore.

Graham

[Not your average framer]

I always planned before my stroke came along to look for a secondhand Gunnar F1 and I'm only a one man band operation these days, with a relatively small business. So, I still regard a CMC as being an intelligent and reasonable option, even now for a smaller framing business and considering the potential re-sale value at a later date it need not be a such a scary option to consider.

I'm still thinking about what I will be doing in future years as I am now coming up to 67 years old, so maybe I will still look for one, but perhaps not.

[grahamdown]

Hi Mark,

I was 65 (4 years ago) when i invested in mine if that's any help?

[Not your average framer]

Not as far as I am aware, but as long as the machine remains in good condition and fully operational , you will get a good part of your originally outlay back when you eventually no longer want it, if you did not pay too much in the first place. I am of course assuming that you will be using it enough to more than cover any depreciation from the income that the machine will generate for the time period involved.

[aceframer]

I know this is an old post but can I ask Topcat what you went for in the end and how are you finding it ? as am at that "which one" stage now ! they all look to do about the same in cutting mounts etc. To me the Gunnar looks better but cant afford the vacuum bed, so that puts the Wizard 9000Z into the choice and Wizard's agent offer an all in package which includes delivery which Gunnar dont !!

[topcat]

I went for a Wizard 9000 in the end. I'd call it well worth the investment and I think I'm still only really getting to grips with it. Lots still to learn but for accuracy and ease of doing odd shapes etc it's excellent. Not to mention time saving. Good luck!

[Not your average framer]

The CMC could be a big plus for your business, if you set out to use the advantages of the CMC to the full and then promote those things that you can do which others, who do not have a CMC cannot easily compete with. I'm thinking particularly about, the ease with which you can make constructional things like cove boxes, fold up box structures to fit into deep frames, fold up constructions to aid object framing ans etc.

I think it is the fact that you can do lots of simple thing like this so quickly and easily. Once you have added something to your library of cutting files, it's there waiting to be used a second time. You can also display some of these special items for display, in your shop windows to stimulate some extra interest and extra business as well.

I will be 68 years old in a few extra months, but if I was younger I would be seriously thinking about getting a CMC myself. The trouble is as you get older you are not so sure how many years you can continue to keep going for, before you have to call it quits. I particularly like the box making facility that many CMCs have also got and I would use it to make and sell custom made boxes to sell.

[aceframer]

Thanks for the feedback Topcat, I plugged for the Gunnar in the end (was stalked by the rep, who's probably reading this. LOL) but this was after watching countless you tube vid's and getting the price down within budget - looking forward to delivery and all the extras I will be able to offer my customers - lots of ideas which we hope will help it pay for itself in the long run

[GUNNAR]