Larson Juhl - is this normal?

[aa1975]

Hi, I got a picture framed with moulding supplied by Larson Juhl in the UK (item number 640348000, see link: https://larsonjuhl.co.uk/mouldings/lars ... -640348000).
The picture below shows what I got. if you zoom you should be able to see regular "lines" across the top bar of the frame (every 10-15cm) which separates segments of different shades of foil. The lines appear all around the frame and are most glaring at the bottom, where I get a 20+ cm segment of very bright (not distressed") gold.

I got in touch with Larson Juhl customer service and they initially wrote back to me that "the moulding should be clean with no sudden changes of colour and should be consistent throughout". Which is how it appears on its the website. Nevertheless, when I put that to the framing company and they got in touch with Larson Juhl they emailed back to the framing company affirmng that they had given me the wrong information (I was forwarded the email exchange). The framing company says that the moulding looks like this in their stock and has put the frame together for me without questioning that there was something wrong with it, which I found really surprising as the result is truly shocking.

So, is anybody here familiar would the specific product item? and does the frame in the picture attached seem normal? What is the reputation of Larson Juhl in this market? I like the frame as it is supposed to look (no lines) so would ideally like to have it redone but both the framing company and Larson Juhl seem to imply that is not an option. Can something be done here or should I give up and get it done with another frame.

Any manufacturers to recommend? I wouldn't want go for a Larson Juhl after having seen their standard

[JFeig]

This is a design generated situation and not a defect in manufacture. The same is true with the "abraded - rub through" that shows the color under the leaf. Some people like it, others do not.

The lines you are referring to are called "lap lines". With the span of the lines it is obvious that metal leaf was used to cover the moulding.

[JKX]

Lap lines are a desirable feaure as it shows metal leaf has been used, they should be a consistent distance apart (on the same length), gold foil comes in sheets, not big long strips. If it was real gold leaf, there would be even more lap lines as the sheets are smaller.

However, if the framer's sample does not include a join, just like Larson Juhl's sample in the photo does not, and this is a surprise that you do not like, then you have a case, I'd say you also do if the shades/tones of foil are inconsistent, unless the sample you were shown was too.

Larson Juhl is a market leader.

[aa1975]

This is a design generated situation and not a defect in manufacture. The same is true with the "abraded - rub through" that shows the color under the leaf. Some people like it, others do not.

The lines you are referring to are called "lap lines". With the span of the lines it is obvious that metal leaf was used to cover the moulding.

Thank you for your very prompt response, Jerome,

I am surprised as
1. I've never seen this in frames before (I have several around the house but never look like this: would that mean that the wood has been sprayed over or painted as opposed to "foiled"?). But more generally, I have never noticed this level of irregularity anywhere
2. The final result looks very inconsistent and unappealing. I can't take my eyes off the the irregularity of the bottom bar and that is not where one would want the eyes to be drawn too.
3. If it i indeed a feature, why don't they show this in their samples and on the website photos?

Out of curiosity, is it expected that metal leaf would be supplied with varying, inconsistent shades? are they supplied in (relative narrow) rolls?

[aa1975]

Lap lines are a desirable feaure as it shows metal leaf has been used, they should be a consistent distance apart (on the same length), gold foil comes in sheets, not big long strips. If it was real gold leaf, there would be even more lap lines as the sheets are smaller.

However, if the framer's sample does not include a join, just like Larson Juhl's sample in the photo does not, and this is a surprise that you do not like, then you have a case, I'd say you also do if the shades/tones of foil are inconsistent, unless the sample you were shown was too.

Larson Juhl is a market leader.

Thanks John,

Interesting to learn all this (intrigued why the foil is not applied longitudinally instead of transversally - or do they come in very shor strips?).

But yes, there was no indication of the inconsisteny of shades/tones and I can't possibly understand who would want a frame looking like that, no matter how much more desirable foil might be to the possible alternatives.

[Justintime]

Seconded, Larson Juhl are a world renowned company.
The issue possibly arises when production of a profile and finish is moved from one factory/supplier to another. We as framers hold a sample on our wall, sometimes for years, but often when a change is made on the production side, our wall sample is no longer an accurate example of what is being provided to us by the supplier. Often shades can vary over time/from production batch to production batch. It is unfortunate that this difference was not picked up by the framer before production of your frame job was done. It is not always the same person producing the completed frame as the person at the design table. In this instance there does not appear to be anything wrong with the finish of your frame, what you see is the natural finish from metal leafing, which as has been said, is a feature that many people appreciate, but I appreciate that this is not how you feel...
I see nothing "truly shocking" here to be frank, other than your choice of white mount that is...

[pramsay13]

So you are a framing customer and you have joined this framers forum to ask if the frame you have received is normal or to be expected?

Obviously you have been given an item that doesn't live up to your high expectations, so your issue is with the framer, not with the wholesale company who, as others have pointed out, are one of the biggest and best available.

If you are truly not happy take it back to the framer and ask them to redo it, either with the same moulding that doesn't have the same abrupt lines as in the side rails, or with a different moulding altogether. Most framers will be desperate for you to be a happy customer so will try and come to a compromise.

I'm not sure why you are asking for manufacturer recommendations. Will you then go to the same picture framer and ask for a frame from that company only? Unless your framer makes a big deal of his suppliers it shouldn't matter to you where they come from. My customers don't have a clue where I order from, and if there was an issue I certainly would be trying to sort it rather than pass the buck to the supplier.

[JKX]

Interesting to learn all this (intrigued why the foil is not applied longitudinally instead of transversally - or do they come in very shor strips?).

They come in squares

[aa1975]

So you are a framing customer and you have joined this framers forum to ask if the frame you have received is normal or to be expected?

Obviously you have been given an item that doesn't live up to your high expectations, so your issue is with the framer, not with the wholesale company who, as others have pointed out, are one of the biggest and best available.

If you are truly not happy take it back to the framer and ask them to redo it, either with the same moulding that doesn't have the same abrupt lines as in the side rails, or with a different moulding altogether. Most framers will be desperate for you to be a happy customer so will try and come to a compromise.

I'm not sure why you are asking for manufacturer recommendations. Will you then go to the same picture framer and ask for a frame from that company only? Unless your framer makes a big deal of his suppliers it shouldn't matter to you where they come from. My customers don't have a clue where I order from, and if there was an issue I certainly would be trying to sort it rather than pass the buck to the supplier.

Thanks! Yes, your first question is correct - as you guys are in the business you would be in the best position to answer.
I don't think the expectations were that high, I showed to a couple of people who immediately said I should return the item, (which was also my immediate impression), so it surprises that so many of you simply assume it is a matter of taste.

Asking to have it redone was indeed what I asked but framer said it would probably have the same problem because the product they have in stock seems to have these lines too (they are quite regular lines). I like the frame so wish it could be fixed but I will likely go for another product.
Because I think the product is very bad, despite everyone's opinion here, I would rather see if there is another supplier with good quality material (because I became suspicious about the reliability of Larson Juhl

[JKX]

Larson juhl are renowned for swift reparation and excellent customer service.

It looks like the distressing is inconsistent, if the framer thought that, before cutting and joining I’m sure they would have swapped it over or credited the invoice (and they likely wouldn’t even want the faulty moulding back), they may still.
Then you could choose something else.

The moulding, as you can see in the link, is from their “essential” (read “budget”) range. They have far better stuff.

[JFeig]

Not having access to the LJ product line for some time, I still do have a general knowledge from being in the industry for many years as both a gilder and frame maker. I did take a look at the link you provided that showed a rather clean finish vs the image of your frame. I do not know the source of your frame and the actual part number that was supplied. IMHO, there might be 2 very similar SKU's of the same profile with different finishes. As suggested, you might want to contact LJ directly.

[Tudor Rose]

The OP’s question has been asked and answered. Lap lines and natural variations in product depending on batches etc clearly explained. Despite reassurances about quality of products and services from Larson Juhl from a number of forum members, it’s clear that the OP wishes to retain their original thinking on the subject. As is their right.

As others have mentioned, it is more appropriate for the OP’s framer to be dealing with their supplier - as they are Larson Juhl’s direct customer in this instance. As such, and as others have suggested, it seems best for the OP to return the frame to their picture framer and find a suitable and amicable resolution with them. With thousands of moulding choices available from a variety of sources in the UK, I’m sure they will be able to find an acceptable alternative.

The framer can continue to have their appropriate relationship with their suppliers and the customer (in this case the OP) can have this direct relationship with their framer.

As there seems to be no further discussion needed, as opinions are unlikely to vary at this point, this thread will now be locked.