Pricing query

[chaos]

Hello All,
Just a pricing query please if anyone has some time.

Customer brought in 2 frames to reuse (with art still in them) and 2 pieces of original art to single mount and pop into the 2 frames.

Sizes of art 380x370mm
Single mount 3 sides 100mm, bottom weighting 120mm
Mount D35035 (Daler Soft white murano)
Backings corricore 10163 & 10162
Hinging & fitting

I use Pro FrameR. The price £87.54 each.

Am I way off? She expected to get both for less than that price.

[JFeig]

I am not current with pricing in the UK. With that said you disassembled and refurbished a used frame for the customer, performed a hinge mount, added a new mat, and put everything together in a presentable package. Total time of your labor estimated at an hour of your time not knowing how much time you spent at the sales counter.

Her expectation of less than £44 each is not reasonable, period. You are operating a business where you earn money to feed, house, and clothe your family.

[Justintime]

Nope, I'm about the same for the spec you've listed.
As Jerome says, we ARE actually meant to make a living out of this.

[pramsay13]

I'd be around £40 each.

[Justintime]

@pramsay £40 each at a frame size of approx 580x600?

[chaos]

Thank you all. People make me doubt myself sometimes. I was quite proud of myself for saying, no, that's the price.

Just as an aside, I have never charged for my time at the sales bench. I was with this woman for an hour today. Do you charge for that time or is it absorbed into everything else?

[Tudor Rose]

If you are using FramR then it should be built into your hourly rate. You state on there how many hours you are actually framing - the rest of your opening hours are then covered and that includes your time at the design desk. However, as a caveat to that you need to be mindful of adding in any excessive time spent - so for that you can add time on the job sheet or have a category set up to allow for it. That's one of the many ways you can personalise FramR.

But of course if you spend the time and the customer walks - then there is nothing you can do but put it down to experience.

[Fruitini]

For me the £87 odd seems fair. We’d be £65 and looks like we are leaving a little on the counter which is good to know. As we all know this type of work can be a pain in the hoop and once you get inside it can open up a whole can of worms. You’ll probably break their glass reassembling as well so you’ll have to suck that up. Will be reconsidering our position for this type of work.

[JFeig]

CHAOS,
I never charged directly for consulting at the counter with a client; however, an average time has to be considered when quoting a job. In my case, my fitting charge is the catch-all for this "cost of doing business" labor charge(average time of servicing a client).
Over the years I accumulated a list of 20-25 various levels of "fitting charges" one of which was for the disassembly and disassembly of a customers frame.
They range all the way from No-Charge up to about 3.5x my normal rate for fitting. below is a quick list

biohazard
conservation
customer frame/glass
customer glass
extra person(S)
fire damage
infested w/mold
museum
N/C
none
oversized-1 person
oversized-2 people
refit
regular
rush order
see other charges
special
warranty work
water damage

[JKX]

For an “un-fit and re-fit” job like this I would almost always price with replacement glass as it can cost more in time to clean old stuff than provide a new piece, but a lot of the time I would be successful in selling a glass upgrade, and many times, a total reframe job.

[JFeig]

The only time I would "willingly" use customers glass is when it is the old fashion hand blown glass, with all the waves, seeds, and other flaws vs todays modern float glass.

[vintage frames]

The only time I would "willingly" use customers glass is when it is the old fashion hand blown glass, with all the waves, seeds, and other flaws vs todays modern float glass.

Ah!
A man after my own heart.

Just at this moment I'm re-fitting 6 large hunting engravings back into their original Victorian frames.
Five of them hold the original 'wobbly' glass and the effect is quite beautiful and harmonious.
The frames themselves needed some repairs but when I opened one up I noticed that the glazing had developed a scummy film on the inside, so all six had to be dismantled and cleaned.

The glass in one of the pictures had been replaced more recently with modern float and this just looked - bleugh..

Of course this is of no relevance to the question posed but the discussion had a certain serendipity to what I'm working at, at the moment.

Don't ask me what I'm charging. It's not enough but I'm just happy that someone still wants me to do anything.
Am lucky, no overheads, only Tesco's for food and I've already cut up my firewood.

[pramsay13]

@pramsay £40 each at a frame size of approx 580x600?

I skim read and thought the 380 x 370 was the glass size.
I'd be around £60 each.

I don't charge separately for consultation time although I also wouldn't spend an hour on 2 jobs where the customer wanted me to use their frame.

I'm happy enough reusing glass if it looks in good condition and is already in the frame and just needs a quick wipe. If I'm making a new frame I won't reuse glass.

[ArtistMakesFrames]

We work out at around £70 for that job, I often regret agreeing to this type of job though!!

[Gillthepainter]

Mind if I ask (as a non pro framer), was she simply expecting some sort of chop service price?
I don't even know if you would offer that.

But didn't realize the amount of work involved, far more effort than a new frame.

[JKX]

Sometimes just taking the back off can take more time than you’re maybe charging for, if indeed you’re charging anything!

Even if it’s being replaced you can’t just rip it out, the artwork may be attached to it.

Fletcher rigid points are best as they are notched and a quick shove with a screwdriver, even through tape, usually pivots them out. Cassese types can be bent upwards then pulled out with pliers. Diamond/triangle points can be a pain, but the worst are long staples fired through the backing board.

Then you may find that something you’ve agreed to re-mount may be attached all around with DS tape, etc etc!

[Gillthepainter]

Indeedy.
I often reuse frames, and for sure the easiest bit is peeling the brown gummed tape off. But I don't have to worry about the look of the back so badly as you might.
I only have to manage my own expectations.

Although recently a friend wanted an unusual shape from an existing frame resized long and narrow (long and narrow boat painting) for her dad. The quickest bit was the chopping service. Filling old chips, I ironed out a couple of dings over a damp towel which worked.
And I also got a small frame for her out of the leftovers. She was thrilled, which made it worth it.

So customer moans must get you all down, especially pricing ones.