Charging for minor tasks

Not your average framer · Fri 02 Nov, 2007 9:47 pm

I've never had a clearly worked out list of prices for odd tasks, such as stringing a picture, etc. Also to be perfectly honest, I usually can't remember what I charged last time either.

Yesterday I regular asked me to string two canvases, so I charged £5 (£2.50 each) and everyone was happy, but then you get to thinking, "it's time I had a price list for jobs like that"!

So the question is, "What's the going rate for minor tasks"? I suspect there's some missed oportunities to be examined in this question!

Moglet · Post by **Moglet** » Fri 02 Nov, 2007 9:58 pm

Good topic, NYAF! It's an area that I have difficulty with. For example, a customer came in with a biggish mirror looking for fixings. On inspection, it not only needed strap hangers, but the corners were barely holding together so I recommended fitting some corner repair plates to reinforce the joints. "Can you put them on for us?" is the next question, but I felt that the customer had no appreciation for the fact that my time costs way more than the fixings supplied.

It's a very tricky area, IMO, as some customers seem to think that they should only be expected to pay for the fixings, and that we provide the fitting service solely for the purpose of keeping ourselves amused on an otherwise dull afternoon....

Merlin · Post by **Merlin** » Fri 02 Nov, 2007 10:51 pm

The normal (standard ??) hourly rate down here is £1.00 per minute.

Just ask any garage mechanic/technician. Electrician. Plumber.

So why not charge that amount... I do !!

Not your average framer · Fri 02 Nov, 2007 10:52 pm

Hi Áine,

I know what you mean about doing something for nothing. However, would having a price list for doing such tasks help to get people to realise that a service has to be paid for.

I'm still working this out myself, but I think little tasks could have some real potential, if handled the right way. For instance, I've got one of those diamond pads which takes the sharp edges off glass. Well, a lady came in wanting to get a new piece of glass for a clip frame she had dropped, so I worked out the price and then asked if she wanted the sharp edges smoothed. She asked, "how much extra is that" and I said £1 and she said o.k. So now I offer the same to anyone who want glass cut. It only takes a few seconds!

There must be plenty of minor tasks like that, which are worth having a standard charge for!

Roboframer · Post by **Roboframer** » Fri 02 Nov, 2007 11:25 pm

So many factors to be taken into consideration.

Your rate per minute/hour is £..blah

But what if you have little or no work to do - the place is like Dodge City Cemetery - and are actually earning £0 per minute/hour when someone comes in with a minor job?

Charge them a top rate because you need the dosh - risking them saying 'HOW MUCH' and legging it - or charge them a rate that you feel they would be happy with ..... because you need the dosh - hoping they will return with something more serious?

Or (eg) examine their nice watercolour against the glass and suggest it needs a bit more than new wire and hardware - like a mount - and why, plus an under-mount - ditto and then what about UV Glass ....... and of course new hangers on that new frame ..... included???

The other extreme - you are looking at staying late all this week you are so busy and you neither want or need this job - but.......... see above paragraph and ........what may come from it?

We have a minimum charge for these minor jobs which can be reduced or even waived altogether - someone has a basketful of craft goods (if they spend over £50 they get a very nice blue tote bag - free) then they produce a mountboard offcut from our offcut boxes, which will be £1 maximum -or a frame from our £1 box (no glass/backing, just rim) and say "can you reduce this to blah by blah and cut a hole in it blah by blah" or "Can you put some glass and a backing in this (£1) frame"

I'll do either or both jobs while their goods are being rung up and charge either nothing or very little - depending.

Do you charge different for very good and brand new customers? Bet you do - I do.

Play it by ear.

Bill Henry · Post by **Bill Henry** » Sat 03 Nov, 2007 2:47 pm

When we first opened many moons ago, like you, we agonized over what (and how) to charge for these piddling “minor” tasks.

Rather than rely on the often meaningless “suggested retail prices” that vendors often provide, we simply got ourselves a cheap stopwatch and timed ourselves doing those jobs.

For stringing wire, for example, we would start the stopwatch, search for the spool of wire, try to find the wire cutters, insert the screw eyes, string the wire, trim it, toss the excess in the waste bin (stop to pick it up off the floor when we missed), and return everything to its proper place, then switch off the stopwatch.

We would then multiply the time it took us by our “shop fee” – in our case $1.20 / minute. We’d do this several times for similar tasks and usually relate this to the United Inches (Centimeters) of the framing project.

Timing ourselves was very illuminating. We would frequently way underestimate the time it would take us to do these little projects. Most of the time, these costs are minor as far as our customers are concerned, so they don’t object to the charges. But, if you ignore them, this lost revenue adds up in a hurry.

Not your average framer · Sat 03 Nov, 2007 7:43 pm

Bill Henry wrote:But, if you ignore them, this lost revenue adds up in a hurry.

Hi Bill,

My thoughts exactly! A small (and reasonable) charge should not only, not offend, but if applied to such tasks on a regular basis, it should add up to a useful amount. "A workman is worthy of his hire".

jPaul · Post by **jPaul** » Mon 18 Feb, 2008 7:19 pm

For some small tasks, especially for first time customers. (Replacing wire / or they need a couple of picture hooks / etc.) we most likely will do it at no charge. Using the opportunity to chat with them about our offerings and services. Having a real life person in your store and being able to tell them about you is valuable in itself (how much money might you spend on advertising to get a new customer to walk in your door in the first place.)

With that said though, we do have a small jar on our counter (favorite charity ) and suggest that whatever they feel the service is worth they put it in the jar.

For regular customers, I probably would not charge them as well for these small things. (Here in the States we do have competition from the BIG BOX Chain Stores ) This is a way of setting ourselves apart in such an inpersonal age that we live in. That small cost of material/labor is greatly offset by customer retention.

The Crofter · Post by **The Crofter** » Mon 18 Feb, 2008 7:38 pm

Easy tasks = 1 pint (hic)
More difficult = 1 bottle of wine

Other charges:
6 Eggs
Fresh home grown veg
Side of salmon
Whole salmon
Smoked salmon (local)
Langoustines
Lobster
Evening meal
Lift to Inverness

Grahame Case · Post by **Grahame Case** » Mon 18 Feb, 2008 7:42 pm

i love it Pat!

I wish they did that in Edinburgh, although we have been given a trout before, and some Jam...

when we get my new toy.. er i mean a computerised mount cutter we are going to have a long hard look at how we charge for our time, especially design time etc.

Mary Case GCF · Post by **Mary Case GCF** » Mon 18 Feb, 2008 9:17 pm

We do have a charging system for fitting hanging fixtures (why do so many people sell art with no means of hanging it up?) . It tends to be £2.50 for a small one or £5 for a big one. If it needs strap hangers, it's the cost of a pack off the wall(which includes a profit margin, of course) plus £5 for fitting. Other small things like providing spare clip frame clips (I don't sell clip frames, just collect the clips when we are reframing from a clip frame into a proper frame - as a canny Scot and a babyboomer, I was taught to throw nothing out), I just say, a donation to our preferred charity - we have a tin - will be fine. Customer goes away feeling they have done a good deed and the money goes toward research to find a cure for my other son's condition so I feel good too.

kev@frames · Post by **kev@frames** » Mon 18 Feb, 2008 9:55 pm

£60 an hour is the going rate in our workshop, and pretty much everywhere down here by the looks of things. Couple of minutes = couple of quid.
Saturday I reglazed a 10x8 for a couple, while they waited, sealed it up,(offered 'em wire but they always seem to prefer cord lol) a flat fiver. Seems about right, everyone happy.

We usually have a repair charge for taking apart and putting back together a picture, and thats a fiver for smaller ones, £10 for larger ones, and £15 for PITA ones. Thats also in our pricing program. On top of that we charge the price for D-Rings cord etc.

If its one of our own frames, for example needing a re-glaze after an accident, we'll often waive the labour and do it for the glass only price as goodwill. That seems to pay off.

we dont charge for taking a picture out of an old frame for re-framing, but usually the customer doesn't want the old frame so that goes in a bargain pile for £2 to £5 anyway.

You have to play it by ear charging for minor tasks. Sometimes the goodwill is priceless.

JFeig · Post by **JFeig** » Tue 19 Feb, 2008 2:32 pm

Kev

£60/ hr. ...... That equiv to about $120 on my side of the pond.

My shop rate is $60/ hr and has been for about 4 years. From discussions, I have heard of shop rates up to $85/ hr for framers in the US. FYI the LJ price schedule recommends $55-60/ hr over here. There are also a lot of home based operations that charge much less which holds down the prices.

Post by **prospero** » Tue 19 Feb, 2008 2:53 pm

When it comes to hourly labour charge, think what other trades/professions charge. Garage mechcanics? Big dealers will charge £150+ hr. Builders? Plumbers? Electricans? I'm not talking about the hourly rate paid to the individual. The rate that their employers charge for their employees labour.

Then there are Solictors, who seem to have a remarkable gift for just how many billable hours they can cram into one day.

I consider the skills and experience of a good framer are at least comparable to many other jobs that pay 10x as much.

JFeig · Post by **JFeig** » Tue 19 Feb, 2008 3:10 pm

this is the survey results of Jan '05 on the Grumble

WHAT IS YOUR HOURLY SHOP RATE? - JANUARY 2005

Rounded up to nearest $5

02% DOES NOT APPLY
04% $15
01% $20
01% $25
04% $30
05% $35
13% $40
12% $45
12% $50
07% $55
25% $60
07% $65
00% $70
05% $75
02% $80
00% $85
00% $90
01% $95
01% $100
00% Over $100/hr

kev@frames · Post by **kev@frames** » Fri 22 Feb, 2008 11:48 pm

JFeig wrote:Kev

£60/ hr. ...... That equiv to about $120 on my side of the pond.

My shop rate is $60/ hr and has been for about 4 years. From discussions, I have heard of shop rates up to $85/ hr for framers in the US. FYI the LJ price schedule recommends $55-60/ hr over here. There are also a lot of home based operations that charge much less which holds down the prices.

ah yes, JF.... but one US$ in the US buys about the same as a £ GBP does in the UK

Ah, the LJ price schedule. First reference book i got on framing was the LJ professional framers manual, 1994 version, and we followed it pretty closely. specially with regard to pricing, seems the "American" way translated quite well over here

Its still a useful book now.

And that cost me £120, although it had $120 on the price lol.