Mirror's

Not your average framer · Mon 10 Mar, 2008 12:59 pm

Johnny9 wrote:When you say a black marker pen, which sort & how far up the rebate should I go???

It's just to hide the bit at the very front of the rebate, which gets reflected in the mirror. It doesn't take much to hide that!

Johnny9 · Post by **Johnny9** » Mon 10 Mar, 2008 2:38 pm

I have bought some heavy duty cord that I thought would be ample with 2 double D-Rings, but I am now not too sure....

Leaning towards maybe (Lion Catalogue)

2 BRIDGE PLATES BRASS PLATED - Part No. 5444A

What do you think???

Not your average framer · Mon 10 Mar, 2008 3:28 pm

Hi Johnny,

Don't get too worried about what size of cord to use. If you look up the breaking strains for these cords you will find that they are very strong indeed.

What I suggest you do, is to get an idea how heavy the whole items is and then consider what fixings you are going to use.

Consider the number and length of screws required and in doing so take into account the hardness / softness of the wood and how this will affect the long term security of the fittings used.

Larger items may require heavier cord to minimise the amount of stretch due the longer length of cord required. Excessive stretching of the cord under the weight of the framed item would suggest that a heavier cord should be considered.

Your own instincts should tell you when a cord is stretching too easily with the weight of the framed item.

Johnny9 · Post by **Johnny9** » Mon 10 Mar, 2008 4:23 pm

I'm confused now?????

The cord I have is from Glass & Mirror, it's the No 4 with a breaking strain 235kg, which with 2 double D-rings with a good screw I thought would be enough, but now I'm thinking of the Lion 2 BRIDGE PLATES BRASS PLATED - Part No. 5444A

HELP!!!!!

Johnny

kev@frames · Post by **kev@frames** » Mon 10 Mar, 2008 5:08 pm

Not your average framer wrote: Hi Kev,

This was advice offered to new framers. I think 100 mirrors might be a little too many for a new framer. .......

looking at the piles of them stacked all over the place, it might be too many for this old one

osgood · Post by **osgood** » Mon 10 Mar, 2008 6:11 pm

Johnny9 wrote: The cord I have is from Glass & Mirror, it's the No 4 with a breaking strain 235kg, which with 2 double D-rings with a good screw I thought would be enough,

The problem with cord is that because of the stretch, you can never get the mirror hung in the place that you want it hung. The cord stretches an unknown amount and that's why I never use it.
SSS wire does not have this problem, neither do Wallbuddies, hangman or plates.
Just choose one of those and forget about the cord! Use it to tie up your tomatoes or rose bushes!

Not your average framer · Mon 10 Mar, 2008 6:12 pm

Johnny9 wrote:I'm confused now?????

The cord I have is from Glass & Mirror, it's the No 4 with a breaking strain 235kg, which with 2 double D-rings with a good screw I thought would be enough, but now I'm thinking of the Lion 2 BRIDGE PLATES BRASS PLATED - Part No. 5444A

HELP!!!!!

Johnny

Relax Johnny,

Frames don't usually come that heavy. The main issue is the stretch one. If the cord stretches too easily, then the customer may find that he hangs it where he wants it, but over time as the cord relaxes the framed item will drop to a lower position.

Modern picture cords can be stretched a very long way before the breaking strain will reached. If the cord is not stretching enough under the weight to feel excessively elastic, then it will be fine. Longer cord lengths have more potential for stretch and may require a heavier size of cord to minimise the effect. This is one of those things which is more practical than theoretical.

Lift the picture, mirror or whatever by the centre of the cord and you will know if there is a problem. Trust your instincts, they won't let you down. It's as easy as that!

fineedge · Post by **fineedge** » Mon 10 Mar, 2008 7:03 pm

I never put cord or wire on a mirror, only HD hangers (aluminium plate with a keyhole). A mirror tends to get cleaned a lot and I use the hangers so that there is no movement while cleaning

Merlin · Post by **Merlin** » Mon 10 Mar, 2008 8:29 pm

Be careful about recommending cord for mirrors!

One of our High street furniture stores had a close shave late last year.
They sell framed mirrors and the owner came to us to see if we could get the strong(??) cord so he could put the fixtures and fittings on.

I told him that I will not recommend any type of cord for mirrors as we only use either mirror plates or the LION flat plate systems. He thought they were too expensive and said he would look around.

In January this year, two of his mirrors had fallen from the wall. Guess what? The cord he used had broken and one of his customers was threatening to take him to Trading Standards. The hanging system was 'Not fit for purpose' and that he was 'the expert' and had said that he had had no problems with his previous sales of framed mirrors and that it must have been the customers fault.

Lesson learnt. Or is it as he now uses chain into D rings.

WelshFramer · Post by **WelshFramer** » Mon 10 Mar, 2008 9:04 pm

Wallbudies sound like a good idea for mirrors.

Anyone know anyone who sells them?

Odems · Post by **Odems** » Mon 10 Mar, 2008 9:30 pm

This is what I delivered as special. The customer can even screw the 8 screws 3,5 x 16 mm. The mould must be 40 mm or more and nice strong from solid wood. A few years ago I made many of those sets as specials for mass-production. Wire is made with pre-crimped loops and now I can produce this with 4 Lion Double Clamp (Page 119) pre-assembled.

Bagel Framer · Post by **Bagel Framer** » Fri 14 Mar, 2008 8:57 am

Osgood said "I have made a number of 6 mm mirrors in frames up to 8ft x 4ft and they have been held in the frames using normal fixing methods."

Can you advise the normal fixing methods please, ie. the backing - I'd have thought an MDF back secured with veneer pins/nails/tacks?

And continuing with the hanging debate - I've used Lion's Canvas Hangers in the past (one either side). Has anyone else used these for mirror hanging or should I use something else like the bridge plates (5444A)? The latest mirror I have to do is 3ft x 2ft, is 6mm thick and weighs 6kg.

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markw · Post by **markw** » Fri 14 Mar, 2008 9:37 am

Bagel Framers - Canvas hangers?? your using something designed to hold a lightweight canvas for a heavy mirror??

I know that a few members have frowned upon gluing mirrors into the frame but there is a good reason why this works. Most people polish mirrors with a certain amount of vigor and in my opinion mirrors just need that extra bonding to make sure they stay well and truly fixed.

Bagel Framer · Post by **Bagel Framer** » Fri 14 Mar, 2008 10:32 am

Hi,

I've used the canvas hangers in the past to hold up light, small mirrors (these have been internal family mirrors) but have and will never use them in anything heavier.

I'll look into the bridge plates and similar that are mentioned further up this thread.

Post by **prospero** » Fri 14 Mar, 2008 10:46 am

I don't like mirrors that can move about in the frame. I usually leave about 1/8" all round and wedge them in with bits of cork tile. Couple of small squares per side does the trick. I make up 10mm strips covered with doublestick tape. Very handy for holding oils on board also and they make good frame bumpers. I don't like the idea of glueing them in and no way should they be tight in the frame.

I agree that d-rings/wire is not the ideal for mirrors. Upside-down keyhole plates are better in theory, but it is very difficult to fix two screws in a wall in exactly the correct position. There is no margin for error and no adjustment possible. Lion do a variety of neat hangers that are much better. For very big mirrors a wood batten on the frame resting on a matching batten on the wall is a good solution and if you use hammer fixings, easy to level.

Roboframer · Post by **Roboframer** » Fri 14 Mar, 2008 7:16 pm

WelshFramer wrote:Wallbudies sound like a good idea for mirrors.

Anyone know anyone who sells them?

Yes.

WRR Pedley & Co Ltd
Ann St
Willenhall
W Midlands WW13 1EW

01902 366060

They call them 'Hangezee' or Hangeeze' but it's the same thing.