Morso follow-up

fyg · Post by **fyg** » Sun 16 Mar, 2008 2:31 pm

Following on from Blaisehall's 'open-mitre' discussion, I have something similar, though I'm beginning to think the only problem can be the Morso.
I am finding a systematic ~0.5mm opening on the inside of mitres. This is on all mouldings on a new morso with blades that haven't seen much action. I've tried using flat and wide sections to be sure.

I've used an engineer's square and found that when the cut lengths are perfectly perpendicular there is a opening in the rebate area (though gradual, not abrupt). I've calibratedthe morso countless times using a steel ruler. I've also tried adjusting the fences. However, moving the left morso fence backwards has little effect because beyond a certain point (i.e. when the angle of the fences becomes greater than 180 degrees) the mouldings just pivot on the area at the centre of the fences where they are attached.

My technique is fine and well practised and I'm being manically careful not to allow any roll during the cutting. As this can't be a underpinning issue and as I've used a number of different mouldings, do I start to question the integrity of my morso (or the blades)?

Any thoughts or comments would be very welcome!

FYG

markw · Post by **markw** » Sun 16 Mar, 2008 2:56 pm

Do you have a second set of blades? - it could be that your blades are not sitting properly. Fitting an alternative set would allow you to eliminate this as a possibility.

Matt Gibson · Post by **Matt Gibson** » Sun 16 Mar, 2008 6:18 pm

not as yet, though I am beginning to think this may be my only option

zanart · Post by **zanart** » Sun 16 Mar, 2008 6:37 pm

How many cuts are you giving the moulding? And how wide is the moulding?

The penultimate cut should be one notch in and the last cut should only be shaving a fraction of the moulding to ensure a smooth edge.

Matt Gibson · Post by **Matt Gibson** » Sun 16 Mar, 2008 6:40 pm

I've been going a notch at a time- and always being extra careful on the final (half-notch) cut.

kev@frames · Post by **kev@frames** » Sun 16 Mar, 2008 8:58 pm

how fast are you doing the final cut? eg- if you do a lightnig fast final half-notch trim, is it better or worse?

Roboframer · Post by **Roboframer** » Sun 16 Mar, 2008 9:18 pm

Have you tried mitring a wide flat 'plank' or batten - say 4x1" ?

Now and again I have a gap problem - always seems to be at the front too.

But once calibrated so I can pin a very small frame (say 4x4" aperture) out of those battens with perfect mitres - all is well.

Another good reason that the batten thing is good is that you don't need rebate supports - so if there is a problem after with normal mouldings, maybe the supports need looking at.

You need spare blades anyway or you're stuffed when you send your only set away to be sharpened.

Really shouldn't be a problem with new blades though.

kev@frames · Post by **kev@frames** » Sun 16 Mar, 2008 9:30 pm

yeah, it was the supports I was thinking about when I asked how fast the last cut was.
The morso supports are the one part of the thing that are not entirely brilliant.

the lightning fast last cut is a good workround for crumbling snotwood sometimes, too. If your knee can take it

Post by **prospero** » Sun 16 Mar, 2008 11:03 pm

Fyg.

I just read your post again and I notice that you mention adjusting the fences. You should never move the right hand one . It should always be in line with the measuring scale. You only have to move the left fence back a tiny amount. Make sure before you do the last cut that the moulding is tight against the left fence,

MITREMAN · Post by **MITREMAN** » Mon 17 Mar, 2008 8:50 am

HI fyg,
Lets presume you have set the fenches back to parallel,and made a test frame in a wide timber section to show the mitre problem.

Then check this out and let me know?

1:Place any moulding in the left hand side and cut a left hand mitre.
What happens to the moulding?
Dose it move?
If it dose its the blades (they may be ground wrong or set wrong)

2:With out any moulding in the machine and the blade head in its foward position, take hold of the back of the blade head and try to move it backwards and fowards?
If there is any movement in the head or the handle,then the tooth on the handle is worn were it locates.

Spares handles and correct grinding available from
www.framersequipment.co.uk
They also offer a free blade checking service, and will also install a new handle for you if required.

Happy to help
MITREMAN

fyg · Post by **fyg** » Mon 17 Mar, 2008 7:06 pm

There appears to be no movement in the cutting head, nor any appreciable movement in the moulding when cutting a left-hand mitre.

I've also wondered about the rebate supports; the underside of the rebates are often splintered, irrespective of the moulding- though i used to get a sharper and cleaner cut. Either this is a problem with the rebate supports or the blades in the vicinity of the supports.

Slow or fast slicing doesn't appear to make a great deal of difference.

If the blades were needing resharpened, wouldn't i see this on the cut surface? The opening is clean and systematically wrong- progressively opening into the frame- suggesting to my simple mind a problem of angles, rather than a problem of dullness of the blade.

fyg

The Crofter · Post by **The Crofter** » Mon 17 Mar, 2008 9:23 pm

I would check the blades are forming a 90 degree angle. If for some reason a blade was fitted with something trapped behind then it would throw it out and cause the observed problem. I guess you can also check this with an accurate 45 degree plate between the front fence & each blade.

The Crofter · Post by **The Crofter** » Mon 17 Mar, 2008 10:46 pm

Another thought (must be the drugs). Cut a really wide but shallow moulding (batten) about 18 inches long. At the centre point cut a mitre but only 75% of the way through the width of the moulding. Ensure there is enough material for the cutout to be self supporting ie not to open or close. Rotate the moulding 180 degrees and offer up the blades to the cutout. Set the depth lever to the same position as the last cut and see if you can spot any difference between left and right cut lines. I think that any offset issues should be visible if you gently raise/lower the blades.

MITREMAN · Post by **MITREMAN** » Tue 18 Mar, 2008 8:07 am

HI fyg,
We can talk about your problem all day, I think the best think to do is see it, then we can help.

If you mitre a very small frame with a in a wide flat moulding (make sure the moulding is square and not twisted) and put it in a jiffy bag un-joined and post it to

Peter Stanlick
Framers Equipment,
36 Charter Gate,
Quarry Park Close,
Moulton Park Industrial Estate,
Northampton
NN3 6QB

Peter Will examine the cuts and we will advise you on the correct actions

We will sort your problem

MITREMAN

The Crofter · Post by **The Crofter** » Tue 18 Mar, 2008 9:10 am

If the rebate supports are not sliding freely during cutting then you will damage the rebates to some extent. Having taken steps to ensure my supports run freely in their slots and applied silicone tape to the front & top edges I can cut most mouldings without the supports binding.

Try this.
Make the first cut.
Move both rebate supports backwards by about 20mmm and set the depth cut to the next notch.
Slide both supports back under the moulding and make the next cut.
Repeat for the whole mitre.

This technique ensures that the supports are doing their job and not puting additional stress on the moulding. A bit slow but works for me. Morso produce a system for setting the rebate supports to give automatic positioning & clearance but trying the above costs nothing.

Matt Gibson · Post by **Matt Gibson** » Tue 18 Mar, 2008 7:37 pm

I've a lot to go on here. Thanks so much for all the suggestions...I'll work on it and get back to you.

Cheers, FYG

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