Black finished mouldings

Not your average framer · Wed 02 Apr, 2008 5:15 pm

I find that black finished mouldings are a real pain. Because they can be finished to hide whatever wood they are made from, it is difficult to buy anything other than cheap and generally variable quality stuff.

It seems to be an excuse to finger joint all the reject stuff together and sell it to the un-suspecting framer. Also the quality of the black coating is often pretty poor too. It is common for finishes to be either too soft and therefore too easily marked, or prone to cracking or bits braking away while you try to cut the stuff. If you get a clean cut on one end, it's still a lottery as to how well the other end will cut.

The now defunct and much lamented Euro Mouldings used to do some very nice black mouldings on ramin, which were great and very consistent quality all the time. Can anyone recommend any better quality black mouldings.

The Crofter · Post by **The Crofter** » Wed 02 Apr, 2008 5:49 pm

Had the same problem and just about given up trying. Worst part was the back edge chipping that happened on the last cut. Really annoying as some of the narrow black cushion from Lion was a good seller. Just moving over to "real" wood as I can't afford the waste.

Roboframer · Post by **Roboframer** » Wed 02 Apr, 2008 5:55 pm

I like black frames about as much as [url=thttp://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=y8f7MD6wVGs&feature=related]This guy[/url] likes black paint

Roboframer · Post by **Roboframer** » Wed 02 Apr, 2008 5:57 pm

Link doesn't work for me try this

The Crofter · Post by **The Crofter** » Wed 02 Apr, 2008 5:57 pm

An example. Had the pics for a while as I was intending to rant but never got round to it.

After much experimenting I found that a postit note placed between the fenc and the moulding helped but the bottom edge was so brittle the slightest touch broke off a section.

Spit · Post by **Spit** » Wed 02 Apr, 2008 6:00 pm

My black mouldings are all made from barewood ash, stain/seal/stain again/seal/acrylic varnish. I prefer the finish, solid black but with the grain pattern seemingly embossed. Plain gloss/satin/matt black for me are boring. Quick to make up, and if you're buying 100ft at a time, reasonably priced.

Post by **prospero** » Wed 02 Apr, 2008 6:40 pm

Been doing a lot of Black frames lately. Black ash is nice (as the man said) and now that black ash melamine furniture has died the death real black ash frames are tres chic. Wax 'em, dust with rottenstone to highlight the grain and buff up with a yellow duster. Black acrylic gesso is good for bigger black mouldings. Nice and thick so you can texture it for interesting effects. And dries as hard as nails.

Ready finished black moulding? Generally looks plasticy and dead and even a cross look will mark it. I even buy a big black scoop from Arqadia, rub it down and paint it pinky brown. Then I paint it black again.

But the pinky undercoat gives the black a deep crimsom cast which looks very hansome.

The Crofter · Post by **The Crofter** » Wed 02 Apr, 2008 6:47 pm

Looks like I need to start experimenting with hand finishing. Not something my customers have mentioned and they do seem to be a conservative lot. However I guess the trick is to present a few options to get them thinking in a different way.

Not your average framer · Wed 02 Apr, 2008 6:50 pm

Hi Steve,

I tend to think along the same lines, but these days the workload is just getting too much and I need to work smarter on some jobs and save some time. The ideal answer for me is better quality black mouldings.

I've already done the same with whitecore mountboard and have switched to another supplier. If I have to cut a mount a second time due to a quality problem with the mountboard, then I'm out of pocket. The same applies to mouldings.

I've given up trying to get stuff returned for a refund. If I don't like the quality of the product, I'll take my custom elsewhere and find something better!

The thing which I find amazing, is that I'm getting better quality by dumping an apparently up-market supplier. It seems that you no longer get what you pay for after all.

Not your average framer · Wed 02 Apr, 2008 6:58 pm

prospero wrote:Black acrylic gesso is good for bigger black mouldings. Nice and thick so you can texture it for interesting effects. And dries as hard as nails.

Hi Prospero,

Black acrylic gesso! That's a new one on me, I've not come across that before. Where can I get some to try?

prospero wrote:Ready finished black moulding? Generally looks plasticy and dead and even a cross look will mark it. I even buy a big black scoop from Arqadia, rub it down and paint it pinky brown. Then I paint it black again. But the pinky undercoat gives the black a deep crimsom cast which looks very hansome.

Mmm....I like the sound of that one. I think I must give it a try!

Spit · Post by **Spit** » Wed 02 Apr, 2008 7:22 pm

prospero wrote:Wax 'em, dust with rottenstone to highlight the grain

I like to add a coat of highly thinned gilt varnish which settles in the grain, rub excess off lightly with steel wool then wax - has a similar effect of highlighting the grain, but you get flashes of gold depending on the lighting & viewing angle.

bexwell · Post by **bexwell** » Wed 02 Apr, 2008 7:30 pm

prospero wrote: Black acrylic gesso is good for bigger black mouldings.

This is a reassuring post, I've been using quite a bit of black Arqadia mouldings and they all seem to mark - I thought it was me, every time I put one face down I hoovered the work surface first with the Dyson - still got some marks.

There a black Gesso Bole liquid at Page 34 in the Lion Cat. would this work on a bare wood moulding?

Spit · Post by **Spit** » Wed 02 Apr, 2008 7:39 pm

I think you'd need a coat gesso primer first.

Not your average framer · Wed 02 Apr, 2008 7:46 pm

Spit wrote:I like to add a coat of highly thinned gilt varnish which settles in the grain, rub excess off lightly with steel wool then wax - has a similar effect of highlighting the grain, but you get flashes of gold depending on the lighting & viewing angle.

Nice!

Roboframer · Post by **Roboframer** » Wed 02 Apr, 2008 8:18 pm

I stock a range of black mouldings - have to.

Favourites, regards durability and cutting are

Simons Bret 20, MAGE 0012 (I think - a brushed finish anyway) INCA summut or other (Same brushed finish, bevelled profile)

Arqadia - The L Juhl 'Confetti' black and at about 50p per foot v cheap for L Juhl.

Nielsen - no idea of the ref nos but a range of flat profiles from half inch to about two and a half inches.

avantime · Post by **avantime** » Wed 02 Apr, 2008 9:19 pm

It's not just black mouldings that have dropped in quality - they all have!!

Mouldings made in South America are the most variable - some wood is VERY soft and the next length is harder than oak!!

Mouldings from the Far East are no better. The bare wood is coated with Teflon to ensure the finish doesn't stick!!!

I don't have a problem with laminated / finger jointed mouldings - it improves the stability of the product. BUT - I wish ramin wasn't so naughty. There is no alternative that is anything like as good. Ahh the olden days!!!

Moglet · Post by **Moglet** » Wed 02 Apr, 2008 9:22 pm

A towel on the workbench when assembling can help with the marking problems.

Moglet · Post by **Moglet** » Wed 02 Apr, 2008 9:26 pm

avantime wrote:It's not just black mouldings that have dropped in quality - they all have!!

Feeling your pain, Avantime!

As other mouldings have now been brought into the topic, I'd really welcome a steer towards suppliers whose limed ranges are good.

Roboframer · Post by **Roboframer** » Wed 02 Apr, 2008 9:28 pm

Moglet wrote:A towel on the workbench when assembling can help with the marking problems.

Absotively - after such stress my armpits are just wringing!

Not your average framer · Wed 02 Apr, 2008 9:32 pm

avantime wrote:I wish ramin wasn't so naughty. There is no alternative that is anything like as good. Ahh the olden days!!!

The Simons rep has told me that some of the Simons 9000 contract stains range now use a wood called Koto. I can't say that I know anything about the stuff, but if it's as hard as Ramin it might be good stuff.

I have been looking at one or two mouldings in the 9000 range with a view to stripping the finish off and using it for hand-finishing. Lately some of this range have been suprisingly good quality.