Problem with Minerva deep rebate moulding

[SteveG]

Just finished a doing a shirt using the Minerva (polymer) extra deep rebate moulding. I found that when cutting on the guillotine the left blade pushes the moulding slightly away from the blade as it got near the bottom of the cut. Guillotine is set up fine, rebate supports, nice newly sharpened blades, use lots of small cuts etc.Has anyone else experienced this with this (or similar) moulding. Not doing it on any other mouldings. The fronts of the mouldings were slightly open when joined owing to the slight slope this put on the mitre but this was overcome easily. I would like to resolve this as I think this is a great moulding to use for shirts. It's excellent value, hard wearing, and when used with styrene is lightweight for such a large frame.
BTW how can I attatch a photo to a post as I want to put a picture up of it. It's the first shirt I've done and was pleased with it and would genuinely appreciate some HONEST feedback from the full time pros..
Regards

[Moglet]

Hi Steve,

When you're typing in a reply, look under the edit box on the posting screen, and you'll see a link "Add image to post". Click on the link and it wll allow you to browse your PC for the pic, and then upload it to the forum. E-Z-P-Z!!

[SteveG]

The only stupid question is the one you never ask..
Thanks Mog..

[rtwwpad]

Hi Steve,

Nicely pressed/arranged shirt.

I don't do them myself, but what do you think of moving the image underneath to a different position as it looks quite bare underneath. Maybe the top right corner instead? or fill the space around the postcard?

What do you think of this style

http://www.signatures4u.com/product_inf ... ts_id=1333

Phil

[Roboframer]

I think the shirt (in the link) looks 'embalmed' and would seriously love to pull that frame apart for a crit.

[rtwwpad]

Embalmed or superglued together <bows to John's superior fabric framing skills>

Do you think the layout is the right direction to point Steve though or not?

I quite like the montage of imagery on the bottom.

[Roboframer]

what do you think of moving the image underneath to a different position as it looks quite bare underneath. Maybe the top right corner instead? or fill the space around the postcard?

Ever put a photo on a shirt?

Reverse bevel a piece of 3mm foamboard the size of the photo and stitch it to the shirt (you could use mountboard but foamboard is easier to pass a needle through - plus it has to go through the shirt & the support) If you use a curved needle you can stitch it without coming through to the front of the foamboard.

If you use a tag gun you could tag a piece of mountboard on to the shirt and then stick another piece over that, to cover the tags and be left with a smooth mounting surface.

Then drymount the photo to the foamboard - PMA is good. You can even put a small frame around it, or a mount, if a mount then use a larger peice of foam/mount board of course.

[Jonny2morsos]

We use these mouldings a fair bit for a customer who does casts of babies feet and hands but have the opposite problem in that the back of the mitre is often slightly open. This we can live with as the front is nice and neat. Looking at your frame you appear to have used the matching glass spacer which we find leaves very little room if you want to put a double mount behind the glass. However, these are budget jobs for a trade customer.

Regarding the style - I feel the bottom corners look like they could do with something. If you could have got a copy of the club logo and reproduced it either side of the photo it would have balanced the design. Did the customer have any more memorabilia you could have added e.g. match programme or ticket.

Keep photos of all this type of work to show future customers BUT take a photo before putting the glass in (saves showing a reflection of you holding a camera) and do not use flash (reflected flash light).

Worth finding out about conservation techniques to prevent fading of signatures, fading of fabric and possible damage to the item (according to your mounting technique). We recently did a shirt signed by George Best and there is little chance of getting another signed by him! A true conservation job will attract a much higher price (£££).

If you are just starting out it may be worth doing one for a club to put in their clubhouse/bar with your name on in return for free advertising in the club programme. Sponsors are also worth a look too. We have an Ice Hockey shirt up in the busiest chip shop in town.

John

[osgood]

SteveG,

If that was your first shirt, I think you have done a good job!
I agree with others who say the bottom section each side of the photo looks a little bare, but perhaps that is what the customer wanted, perhaps there was nothing else to put into that space.

There are many designs that can be used for shirts and the only one I just can't abide is the one in the link posted by Phil. IMHO a shirt looks better if some part of the sleeves is showing.

Here's one of the many jersey's I've done. (I would have liked to have used an accent mat on the photos, but the customers budget didn't allow that. It did however allow suede mat on top and under the shirt):

[Moglet]

If that is your first shirt, I think you have done a good job!

So do I, Steve! (minus the "if"... )

...perhaps there was nothing else to put into that space.

That was my take, Steve. Given the items to be framed in the brief, wherever you put the picture, there would have been "white space". A symmetrical arrangement as you have it is quite a good choice given the options available, IMO. Vivien Kistler: "We are not magicians."

Indeed, I find that the trickiest aspect of being a framer is trying to produce the framing equivalent of the unattainable "silk purse"... The odd thing is that customers who tend to present jobs that are tricky in this respect, tend to be delighted regardless of the things that scream "aaaarrrghhhhh" to our own aesthetic sense (balancing of space being the hardest of all).

There are many designs that can be used for shirts and the only one I just can't abide is the one in the link posted by Phil. IMHO a shirt looks better if some part of the sleeves is showing.

True, Ormond, but one has to take into account the customer's brief/budget. There haven't been that many shirts coming through my door, but the typical shirt job norm in my area is to produce a a mount-shirt-glass crumpled sandwich (...shudder...), and therefore price is a GI-NORMOUS factor in my market, especially as I refuse point blank to replicate the (IMO - dreadful) practices that seem to be commonplace in my local area. I quote for a 'proper' job, and that is usually enough to send the enquirer out the door at a rate of knots, but for those customers who grok that the glass should not be against the glass, yet baulk at the price, sometimes I tuck the sleeves behind the body of the shirt to reduce the frame size.

[osgood]

True, Ormond, but one has to take into account the customer's brief/budget.

Áine,
I agree with that entirely! What I was saying is that I don't like that look, myself. Others might, but not this little black duck.

I would always try to come up with some solution to fit the budget of the customer if I could. If I can't meet the budget, that's OK with me. I will always do what I can to meet the brief and the budget, but will only go so far.

The only time I have had a request from a customer to only show a signature, I complied with his request. In this case the shirt was not important, just the signature, which was on the shirt. The frame also contained some signed photos.

[SteveG]

Thanks for all the responses. I tend to agree with those who say the bottom corners could have done with something in them, however this was all the guy had to put in the frame. He wanted the minimum of folds and didn't want it to look stretched out or pulled tight either so it's held onto the board with micro tags and I was pleasently suprised at how secure it was. It's going in a fairly crisp/contemporary room so this style will suit I think. The main thing is that the customer (guinea pig work mate) is very happy with it and I was happy at being given a chance to try my hand. I have now got two very large rugby shirts to do off the back of this one (hey, it pays to deliver the jobs in the workplace, everyone has a nose!)
Any ideas about the moulding problem anyone??

[Grahame Case]

I think the shirt (in the link) looks 'embalmed' and would seriously love to pull that frame apart for a crit.

John, you are entirely right, i have had one of these in (from the same company) for a reglaze, and the framing was so bad i decided to phone up the guy and gave him a bit of friendly advice.

the sport shirt was sellotaped into the frame, and it was stuffed through a mount that looked like it was cut with a blunt screwdriver,

photographs were all computer print outs on standard paper, selotaped all the way around, the backing board was standard MDF no barrier sheet, no spacers spacing item away from glass and masking tape used on the back.

and guess how much it cost the customer... £400.00 - the framing almost certainly destroyed the value of the item,

[osgood]

Steve,
Do you have a spare set of blades? If so try them and see if you get the same result.
Also test by making some different sized bites. Try skimming off about 3mm, 2mm, 1mm and 0.5mm. Is the problem the same each time?

I had a pair of blades ruined by a commercial 'sharpener' years ago. They didn't keep the blades cool and because they were laminated with a very hard face about 3mm thick, the differing expansion caused the front face of the blade to curve slightly. This curve meant that as the blades cut they pushed the moulding away and resulted in a similar problem as yours.
I have had them ground on the face to make it flat again and they now work OK.

I'm not saying that this is your problem, but it's worth checking the blades with a straight steel rule to see if the blade is perfectly flat, especially close to the cutting edge.

[BaBaZa]

The Morso blades can push away from mouldings when the blades have been flat ground instead of hollow ground. It usually happens on harder woods or ploymer mouldings.

Some local companies say they hollow grind but very few do. If you need your blades hollow ground contact Lion or Cathandon.

[SteveG]

These blades are recently back from LION who gave them the once over and sharpened them and reported no problems. Thanks Ormond, I'll try your suggestion and try the other blades too (though they need sharpening now).

[MITREMAN]

[quote="SteveG"]Just finished a doing a shirt using the Minerva (polymer) extra deep rebate moulding. I found that when cutting on the guillotine the left blade pushes the moulding slightly away from the blade as it got near the bottom of the cut.

Hi Steve,
Movement in the head of the Morso can cause this problem.
Wear in the notches on the handle can allow movement of the head backwards, check that there is no movement in the head when cutting.
Also get a set square out and check the moulding is square on the bottom, back and inside the rebate all of which can give you problems.
As you have sent the blades to Lion for checks they should be correctly ground?, no burr,hollow ground no grinding of the front edge of the blades?
Also some Minerva (polymer) moulding can slip due to the finish, make sure again that there is no movement, get someone else to hold the moulding and watch while you chop, ask them to watch the head and the moulding while you feel for movement yourself in the head.
If you would like to send some mitred bits in a jiffy bag with a compliment slip to

Peter Stanlick
Framers Equipment
36 Charter Gate,
Quarry Park Close,
Moulton Park Industrial Estate,
Northampton
NN3 6QB

www.framersequipment.co.uk

Tel 01604 790333
Service@framersequipment.co.uk

We will take a look for you and see if we can resolve your problem, Framers Equipment also do a free blade check when they grind blades, it may be worth getting your second set done by Framers so you can compare grinding and totally rule out a blade problem.

Cheers MITREMAN

[SteveG]

Thanks, I may even make the trip in person as I'm only in sunny Milton Keynes.

[David Jarvis]

One thing that sometimes works is to grease the front edge of the rebate supports with candle wax and also the blade faces. Plastic mouldings which are flat also sometimes cut better upside down but keep your Morso base free of dust or byou will mark the moulding.

[Moglet]

One thing that sometimes works is to grease the front edge of the rebate supports with candle wax...

Thanks for that tip, David! I don't use Minerva mouldings, but I think it might solve another problem I have when chopping mouldings with deeper rebate lips!