Is a vaccuum press the right way to go?

blockmount boy · Post by **blockmount boy** » Tue 06 May, 2008 8:59 pm

I am looking at starting up a new business mdf block mounting large posters.
I realise I could use a cheaper jetmounter/laminater but it seems that a vaccum press would be easier albeit much more expensive.
Being new to the game I thought I would run it by you guys just to check my hours of research hasn't been wasted and I that theres not a cheaper/better way of doing things.
I have put a thread in the sales/wants section as well just in case anyone is selling a vacuuum press.

thanks alot.

Post by **John** » Tue 06 May, 2008 9:08 pm

Hi BB, welcome to the forum.

What thickness of MDF are you proposing to mount the posters on?

blockmount boy · Post by **blockmount boy** » Tue 06 May, 2008 9:25 pm

John wrote:Hi BB, welcome to the forum.

What thickness of MDF are you proposing to mount the posters on?

thanks John

I was looking at maybe 10mm or thereabouts, something chunky enough to do gallery wrap so it looks good.

Not your average framer · Tue 06 May, 2008 9:28 pm

To use a vacuum press it is neccesary to be able to close the lid to maintain the required vacuum. If the thickness of the MDF stops this, then it will not be possible to establish a vacuum.

Your vacuum press supplier will have a specification for the maximum thickness which the press can handle and no doubt will be able to advise you.

Roboframer · Post by **Roboframer** » Tue 06 May, 2008 9:30 pm

..... and then it will really suck!

Sorry!

Welcome to The Forum

foxyframer · Post by **foxyframer** » Tue 06 May, 2008 9:47 pm

Welcome BB

Harking back to the 70's with blocks. Retro !

10mm MDF for a large poster is a bit thin, it'll bow. 18mm is better, but may still bow and have a weight issue.

I used to make loads of blocks back in the 70's and 80's, when all we had was chipboard.

Now we are in the 'mimimalist era', maybe blocks are making a comeback.

Good luck BB

Foxy

osgood · Post by **osgood** » Tue 06 May, 2008 9:51 pm

blockmount boy wrote:something chunky enough to do gallery wrap so it looks good.

'Gallery wrap' and 'blockmounting posters' are two unrelated processes. What do you mean by this???

blockmount boy · Post by **blockmount boy** » Tue 06 May, 2008 10:04 pm

This is what I'm talking about guys:

Having said that I havent a clue what the maximum thickness is that you can out in a vacuum press!

I think this process is proabably the best way to present a poster (less formal looking than framing) but if anyone cares to suggest something else please do and also if theres a cheaper way than shelling out loads for a vacuum press I would be very interested!

blockmount boy · Post by **blockmount boy** » Tue 06 May, 2008 10:07 pm

foxyframer wrote: 10mm MDF for a large poster is a bit thin, it'll bow. 18mm is better, but may still bow and have a weight issue.
Foxy

No way, surely not can 10mm MDF bow?
Nightmare!

Yes I can see the weight side of MDF not being great but I need it to be sturdy for postage purposes.

osgood · Post by **osgood** » Tue 06 May, 2008 10:14 pm

blockmount boy wrote: I think this process is proabably the best way to present a poster (less formal looking than framing)

Thanks for the explanation! Probably best not to use the term "gallery wrap" as a description for this as it is most commonly used to describe canvas on a stretcher wrapping.

As far as being the 'best way to present a poster', I wouldn't agree with that for one fraction of a second.

If people want blockmounting then this is probably the best way to do it.

As far as equipment is concerned, the vacuum press would be excellent. If you are serious about going into business, then it will be necessary to allocate some funds to the purchase of equipment. If you are trying to get into a business without the necessary equipment, you will struggle!

blockmount boy · Post by **blockmount boy** » Tue 06 May, 2008 10:27 pm

osgood wrote: As far as being the 'best way to present a poster', I wouldn't agree with that for one fraction of a second.

If people want blockmounting then this is probably the best way to do it.

thanks.
For cheapo music and film posters what presentation would you prefer/recommend?

Steve Goodall · Post by **Steve Goodall** » Sat 10 May, 2008 8:00 pm

Hi Jason - or should I say blockmount boy

You've been given some good advice here & I know your still confused. I got your voicemail & email - but I've just been bombed out with training in Bristol all week.

If the offer of beer is still on the table we could hook up next week...

How did the trip to B&Q go???

blockmount boy · Post by **blockmount boy** » Sun 11 May, 2008 10:17 am

Thanks Steve.

I was a bit gutted B & Q charge for cutting MDF (unless its small quantities).
I need to find some local timber merchants that are maybe cheaper.

Yes it would be great to pick your brains again in the flesh.
I will give you a call/text next week to see if I can get you those bevvies I owe you!

Jason

Martin Harrold · Post by **Martin Harrold** » Sun 11 May, 2008 3:54 pm

If you mount any paper onto one face of any board, almost certainly it will bow sooner or later. The other challenge is finishing the edges of the board neatly.

Did you consider floater framing?

Mount the print onto MDF, and lay that into a frame made using a special floater profile moulding. Arrange things so that there is an app. 2mm gap all around, and so that the face of the panel is slightly below the rim of the floater moulding.

It's cheap and quick to do; the slight gap tends to conceal slight errors in trimming and the edges of the panel do not need finishing. The panel is held into the foater frame with white glue or silicone.

And, best of all, the finished product has a higher perceived value than a plain block mount. If you add the materials plus labour time, you'll often find that a floater frame is less costly to produce than a block mount.

Steve Goodall · Post by **Steve Goodall** » Sun 11 May, 2008 4:33 pm

Martin is right (as always) (respect to the "Lion King")

You will remember I demonstrated this technique at the school. The results can be stunning & either a press or a roller will do the job.

We can discuss it over that beer & I'll point you in the direction of a good timber merchant in Denton too...

Moglet · Post by **Moglet** » Sun 11 May, 2008 4:42 pm

Steve Goodall wrote:Martin ....the "Lion King"

Love it!

That's gonna stick!

foxyframer · Post by **foxyframer** » Mon 12 May, 2008 8:33 am

Try half a dozen on 10mm BB; see how you get on. Various sizes, say: 10" x 12" to 36" x 24" .

B&Q will only cut the first four cuts for free; then make a modest charge. OK if you don't want the dust and hassle of doing it yourself.

Let us know how you get on.

Most framers probably have never bothered with blocks. Martin and I are only giving you the benefit of our experience.

Foxy

blockmount boy · Post by **blockmount boy** » Mon 12 May, 2008 9:10 am

Thanks for the floating frames idea guys.
Yes I agree this would be a great way to do it but I dont think it would work for my needs.

The problem is I need to have various sizes - 24 x 36 inches (normal maxi poster) , 21 x 62 inches (door poster) , 27 x 39 inches (movie poster) and even 39 x 55 inches (giant poster)

Would it feasible/realistic for me to custom make my own floating frames?

I imagine it would be really pricey to do this which is why I ruled it out but if theres a cost effective way of doing it I'd love to know.

thanks

Post by **prospero** » Mon 12 May, 2008 10:02 am

It's not going to be a cheap process whichever way you slice it. Particually the big sizes. To mount a 62" poster you would need a seriously big vacuum press. This sort of kit is creeping up toward a five figure sum. And some of the bigger presses need 3-phase electricity. Wet mounting by hand is an option, but not really feasable for production work. You need to let the thing dry under considerable weight to get a good bond. This would mean having a huge amount of space.
Assuming you can mount them somehow, I would use 3mm hardboard. (Not MDF) You would need to search for a source of good quality stuff. Hardboard varies dramatically. You need it very dense with a very even surface that needs to be sanded to provide a good 'key' for the adhesive. I used to mount/heatseal a lot of big o/e prints on hardboard. I still have some and they have not bowed or delaminated after nearly 20 years. I did them on a hardbed press in stages. I left them in the press for about 20 mins. The bigger ones needed to be done in four bites, so that's at least an hour per print.

You can pick up hardbed presses fairly cheaply nowadays, but it's a long-winded process compared to a vacuum press.

Don't forget to factor in the electricity costs.

To get the 'block mounted' effect, you could make a subframe from PAR pine, maybe 19x75mm and glue the board to that. You could paint the edges black, but adding a deep narrow frame, glued to the subframe, may be easier.

btw. Hardboard may be available in stock doorskin sizes.

btw2. Avoid the oil-tempered flooring grades.

So the moral is: You could do single ones without spending too much, but if you want to turn them out in quanity some seroius investment in equipment would be necessary.

blockmount boy · Post by **blockmount boy** » Tue 13 May, 2008 3:15 pm

prospero wrote:
To get the 'block mounted' effect, you could make a subframe from PAR pine, maybe 19x75mm and glue the board to that. You could paint the edges black, but adding a deep narrow frame, glued to the subframe, may be easier.

thanks prospero, I was thinking along similar lines as this solution would be alot less heavy and on a big poster that could make a big difference.
I could do with an idiots guide to producing the above as I am a real newbie!
Any idea where I should start?

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