"Liquid metal" and other metallic paints from Lion

[Not your average framer]

I was not able to go to the Spring Fair this year due to the weather conditions combined with the distance I needed to travel, but I've just received my new cataloue from Lion, so I've been checking it out. I wonder if anyone has had the chance to see Lion's new "Liquid metal" metallic paints, or even better to try them out as I'd like to hear any feedback.

I'm intending to try a few colours, but I'm not sure that the colours printed in the catalogue are likely to be all that helpful in making the right selections. I like the idea of the darker or tinted silvers, pewter and bronze, etc.

I also noted that Pete Bingham's own silver paint has been added to the Lion catalogue too! This is an excellent paint and it can be burnished to look like silver leaf. I find it either needs some added transparent tint in the mix or something washed over the top for best effect, but then I like muted colours and effects anyway.

Although it's not made clear in the Lion catalogue, Pete's metallic finishes rely upon being painted onto newly applied wax and then heat drying with a hot air gun as the wax becomes the binding agent for the metallic particles in the paint. This might sound strange, but it's a wonderful techique and produces fantastic results.

Pete often distresses the finish afterwards with 0000 grade steel wool, but I now do this with a piece of kitchen tissue with some wax on it. The solvent in the wax on the tissue then softens the wax which binds the metallic particles to the base finish and allows you to distress the finish without as much dulling as you get with the steel wool.

[Spit]

Although it's not made clear in the Lion catalogue, Pete's metallic finishes rely upon being painted onto newly applied wax and then heat drying with a hot air gun as the wax becomes the binding agent for the metallic particles in the paint. This might sound strange, but it's a wonderful techique and produces fantastic results.

It took me a couple of goes with Binghams golds to realise this - for a while I was f'in and blindin' because once it had 'dried' it would still wipe off onto anything that would touch it.

Despite this it is excellent stuff and looks terrific - I always give it a couple of coats of wax on top - just to make sure.

[prospero]

Not knocking PB. I tried his novel wax technique and it works. Drawbacks: It can rub off easily. It's a might expensive. It has a very short shelf life in the tub. I found I can get a better effect with gold powders mixed in varnish. I used Liberon gilt varnish for ages. Once dry the finish is very durable and goes on well over an acrylic base. Nice thing about it is it dries very fast and can be removed with turps, which allows great flexibilty in achieving various effects. Recently a lot of the colours have been discontinued, particulllay the nice silvers. And I have also heard a whisper that it is due to be changed to a water-based formulation. No use to me. After a lot of searching and testing I found a clear varnish with similar characteristics. So now I buy a big tin of gold powder and mix my own. Works out very economical. Anyone who wants the recipe is more than welcome. One thing I haven't quite cracked is silvers. They are very weird. The only silver powder (aluminium in point of fact) is rather grainy and does quite behave the same are the golds. If anybody knows a source of fine silver powders, preferably various shades, pleeease do tell. I am down to my last 1/4" of Liberon 'Sceaux'.

[gesso]

Homebase use to sell a spray paint in a can that had a couple of gold and silver eggs on the outside it was fab for fake gilding esp english gold, The secret is to get the paint out of the can and apply it by brush . you could( with a little practice ) get a good antique water gild effect with minimum outlay. I don't know if they still sell the same brand and I cant recommend 'milking' the pressurized containers unless you enjoy lookin like a reject from a roxy music audition.

[Moglet]

I cant recommend 'milking' the pressurized containers unless you enjoy lookin like a reject from a roxy music audition.

Where can I meet this person???? Be still, my beating

[gesso]

I take it youve seen that film with Daniel Craig ...something something of a foolish mind.................. sorry havnt had a coffee yet!

[Not your average framer]

Not knocking PB. I tried his novel wax technique and it works. Drawbacks: It can rub off easily.

Hi Prospero,

I have not had any problem with it rubbing off at all. It may be that you either have not used enough wax or your wax is getting past it's best and no longer contains as much solvent as when it was new. What a lot of people wont realise is that the solvent in the wax also is an effective solvent for acrylic paints and while drying the metallic paint with a heat gun the interface between the underlying acrylic base coat and the wax becomes bonded together during the process.

You need quite a decent coating of wax to get the right result. Pete puts it on with a brush to get a thick enough coat and I do likewise. You not only need enough wax to fully bind all the metallic particles in place, but also enough wax to contain enough solvent to soften the acrylic base coat to get a really secure bond to that too!

After a lot of searching and testing I found a clear varnish with similar characteristics. So now I buy a big tin of gold powder and mix my own. Works out very economical. Anyone who wants the recipe is more than welcome.

Thanks Prospero, I for one would be very interested in trying it. I assume there will be others too!

One thing I haven't quite cracked is silvers. They are very weird. The only silver powder (aluminium in point of fact) is rather grainy and does quite behave the same are the golds. If anybody knows a source of fine silver powders, preferably various shades, pleeease do tell. I am down to my last 1/4" of Liberon 'Sceaux'.

Aluminium powders don't work all that well. Pete Bingham's paint uses real nickel silver, (otherwise known as coin silver). I assume that's what he still uses, it used to be much more expensive than his gold paints, but is now in Lion catalogue at the same price as the gold paints. I'd be very surprised if it has changed as Pete is really fussy about getting things right!

[prospero]

Yep. As I said, no knocking the Bingster. To be fair, when I say it rubs off, it doesn't with normal handling. It's just that I like to test things to destruction and my usual method is to drag my talon-like fingernails across a finish. If this doesn't leave a mark, it's OK in my book and welcome to marry my sister.

The texture paints are good as well. Only prob is, the way I use it works out about a quid a brushful. Now if it was available in 5lt tubs at a more realistic price......
This is what turned me to the ripple paint. Ok, it only comes in white and there is a limit to how much you can tint it, but by my calculation it works out about 50x cheaper.

[gesso]

Where can I meet this person???? Be still, my beating

That's it! "Flashback's of a fool" ......sorry carry on.

[Martin Harrold]

My, NYAF is very quick off the mark, reading about Liquid Gold and spotting the addition of Silver to the Everest range.

The Liquid Gold is UK made by Gary, the paint wizard at Roberson. It's completey new and yes, we understand the problem of picking out the right colours to try. But, what caught our attention is the wide range of non-golds It's not possible to print any better but the page has not come out too badly. Prices are good too. It does seem that choice of underlay colour affects the finish, but that's the same with all metallic finishes, from real gold leaf down. We might be able to get some shade cards but they have to be hand done so won't be free. Feedback very welcome.

As for the wax aspect of the Bingster's (I like that - it guess it comes from the Hamster - who I know a bit as he once drove our racing 2CV in the 24hr, boring but true) metallic paints, that's news to me. Pete - where are you ? tell me more and we'll mention it in the next catalogue.

[Not your average framer]

My, NYAF is very quick off the mark, reading about Liquid Gold and spotting the addition of Silver to the Everest range.

Hi Martin,

Well I'm seriously into hand-finishing, so that's what I was checking out first when I got your catalogue. Your comments about your "Liquid metal" paints and the Roberson connection are particularly interesting, can you confirm if this means that they contain real bronzing powders? If so then that sounds very promising.

I only wish there were more metallic paints available in Pete's Everest paints, as because you use them over wax as the binder, they are incredibly versatile and can acheive wonderful antique and distressed finishes. The employment service funded a whole week of training for me with Pete and I wanted it all to be about hand-finishing. Obviously, there are restrictions of available space and visitors having limited time, which limit what Pete is able to demonstrate at the show, but I think he had to work hard finding enough to teach me to fill the week and I haven't look back ever since. I'm really into muted, distressed and antique finishing effects and have tried all sorts of paints and to date they are still the best for the type of finishes I like to acheive.

BTW, I like the new catalogue too!

[Moglet]

We might be able to get some shade cards but they have to be hand done so won't be free. Feedback very welcome.

Hi Martin,

I think the shade cards sound like a great idea, and as long as the cost was reasonable, I would be happy to pay for same. One of the things I really like about the way Lion do business is the "tester" packs: they really help a framer to try out different things, and to order with confidence.

(Haven't received my new catalogue yet... )

[Not your average framer]

I've bought some Regency gold Liquid metal paint to try and had a play with it earlier today. In the jar it looks a lot like the Plaka gold paint, but when you use it that's where any similarity ends. It can be burnished and buffed to a very high shine and does indeed look like metal leaf. If anything it's too bright and needs toning down.

I don't think it looks as classy as Pete Binghams paints, which give that classic understated look. I also don't know if it is possible to tone down the shine, without spoiling the effect, how well they will take a wash over the finish, or what happens when you distress the finish. It's early days yet, but it's a good price and not bad so far!

I don't think Pete need worry too much, as it's a very different product and looks completely different, but it may do well for more modern effects.

[framemaker]

I have also just got a few of these to try, Regency gold, platinum, silver and classic gold, so far I have painted two samples. I quite like the initial finish, I think the varied colours will make some good samples, I especially like the platinum one.

Good to know they are made by Roberson who have a lot of experience in making and supplying art materials. It says on the jar that the finish will not tarnish and needs no varnish so I wonder if they are made from mica powders instead of bronze powders or maybe the varnishing is somehow contained in the acrylic binder, anyway my first impression is that these are a very good range and given the health risks of mixing your own with bronze powder and binder, with the convenience of not needing to be varnished and cleaning brushes in water they make a useful finish.

[Martin Harrold]

All:

Thanks for all this useful feedback. As soon as I get back from a short hol, I'll make sure Gary at Robersons gets to see all that and answers the queries raised.

We've just finished Quadrum / SACA in Bologna and Focus, the big photo show at NEC. Both were very up-beat, and Focus had a stupendous attendance, 35,000+. The aisles were full for the whole show. Now, if only we can all work to rebuild the Spring Fair to that kind of glory, then our whole industry wuld be much stronger.

[Not your average framer]

Hi Martin,

I was wondering if you can ask Gary to tell us a little more technical info about these paints to help some of us understand how to use the a little better.

My first question is if I should want to reduce the brightness of Pete's Everest metallic paints, I can add a very small amount of one of his non-metallic colours, (which use opaque pigments) and obtain a much more muted effect. So can I assume that the liquid metal paint are acrylic based and therefore safe to mix with acrylic paints containing an opaque pigment, which adversely affecting the esential qualties of the paint, particularly durability, etc?

I'm assuming that the metallic fillers used in the paints are either mica or something synthetic as they look very different to the normal bronzing power based paints. So my next question is, are there any things we should not use when creating distressed finishes besides the steel wool already mentioned in the Lion catalogue? I'm thinking about pumice, rottenstone, and other abrasives.

And my final question, is concerning compatablity with other paints either underneath (basecoats) or over (washes and tints). I quite often use bitumin in white spirit over Pete's Everest metallic paints without any problems and also acrylic based washes too! Any advice in these areas would be helpful too!

Thanks in anticipation,
Mark.

[Not your average framer]

If anything it's too bright and needs toning down.

Well, I need to correct that statement. I have just received a few more colours to try them and one of the first things I have noticed is that the brightness of the metallic effect varies according to the darkness of the paint colour. The lighter ones are brighter and the darker ones are more dull.

I like some colours much more than others, but I'm also realising that many of the ones which I don't like so much as they are will be of great benefit for mixing with others to adjust colours to get what I want.

I have already decided that some of these colours are great for painting the inner mount for double mounts, the results are quite stunning. Also I'm going to try them for painted deep mount slips.

A framing repair job last week needed a touch up to the gold sight edge with the Regency Gold, which after a quick burnish blended in perfectly. I often have to repair and touch in customers old frames and it looks like some of these Liquid Metal paints with be complementing the existing collection in my touch up kit.

[Moglet]

Finally got my 2009 Lion catalogue, and I'm going to try out some of these new metallics.

Mark, can you recommend a colour that could be used for touching up champagne sliver mouldings?

[Phill]

[quote]We've just finished Quadrum / SACA in Bologna and Focus, the big photo show at NEC. Both were very up-beat, and Focus had a stupendous attendance, 35,000+. The aisles were full for the whole show. Now, if only we can all work to rebuild the Spring Fair to that kind of glory, then our whole industry wuld be much stronger.[quote]

Dont wish to go off topic , but you are right, I could not believe how busy it was, and I wen't on the Tuesday, It was just how spring fair used to be 10years ago, HAPPY DAYS, I hope they return.

[Not your average framer]

Mark, can you recommend a colour that could be used for touching up champagne sliver mouldings?

Hi Aine,

I haven't tried the whole range yet, so it's difficult to give too many clues just yet. One ones I have got so far are Fine Gold, Regency Gold, Blacked Bronze, Pewter, Platinum, Baroque and Steel grey.

The Fine gold may well be worth checking out for touching up champagne silver as it is something like a mix of gold and silver with a slight hint of pink. If your champagne silver is slightly pinky then this may just be the one.

Regency Gold is very rich eye catching gold and is likely to become a real favourite.

Blackened Bronze is very much one of those darker metallic finishes so popular on many designer mouldings at this time. I think it would also mix well with the Regency Gold to create some nice in between shades.

Pewter is something like silver with a slight hint of blue and not unlike the colour of Silverfinger. It might be interesting to see what it looked like if mixed with another in the range to darken it down.

Platinum & Baroque are both very interesting colours and similar to Larson Jhul's Ferrossa pewter, but possibly a tad lighter than the ferrossa. I think that these two also colours have great potential for mixing with others in the range to create some really designer looking effects.

Steel Grey, is quite dark, dullish blue grey effect. I've only tried this on a scrap bit of mountboard so far and was not paticularly struck by the effect, but I haven't given it a fair trial yet, so don't right it off. At this stage, I would need to try it out properly before saying any more, but I'm already wondering what it would look like mixed with Pewter, Platinum, or Baroque. My guess is that it still could produce something stunning either mixed with something else or used in the right way.

Some general comments:

I'm not sure how well these paints will react to being distressed, I suspect they will be better suited to more modern effects than traditional effects. I think that we will be adding extra effects more by what we add on top of these finishes, rather than what we put under them. This is not intended as a negative comment, these paints are very different to what most of us will be used to. We will probably use them in different ways to how we use other paints and get some really stunning results too! For myself, I'm looking forward to trying some Ferrossa type finishes, but perhaps with new twist too!

Some quick words of warning:

Based on my initial experiences, I would suggest that a sealing coat of something like the Ployvine Wax Finish Varnish should be considered to guard against problems if wax is later applied over the Liquid metal, because the solvents in Black Bison waxes make it a little too easy to remove the metallic finish when the wax has just been applied.