FATG

Roboframer · Post by **Roboframer** » Tue 23 May, 2006 9:36 pm

Here is the link to the FACTS website.

http://www.artfacts.org/

John,

My dream organisation would consist of any framer with internet access that wanted to work to his/her full potential. So - hundreds and hundreds.

Then add restorers, artists, photographers, conservators - even suppliers; anyone involved in our trade - as long as they did not use the organisation to promote their products.

Subscription would be free!

It already exists in The States, it's called The Grumble and this forum already has members from the above list and will grow.

Maybe no member of The Grumble has lab tested all the most popular makes of mountboard, but if I were to post a topic, right now, asking what, in the members' opinion, was the best for quality/performance/colour range/cost. I would receive some very well informed opinions - fast.

The FATG would not answer the question.

If someone else posed the same question BTW, my answer would be Bainbridge artcare - no competition!

markw · Post by **markw** » Tue 23 May, 2006 9:49 pm

Sorry Mark - got the wrong end of the stick re FATG mediation - But in cases where there is a dispute thats what they are supposed to do.

Seems to me to logically assume that good standards in one country should be good in all - the FACTS standards are well written and defined.

Roboframer - I am not trying to defend the FATG lack of involvment with individual businesses - Just stating they do make an effort to have a branch presence - I agree - they should get out more.

Its a fact that the FATG have a very small percentage of uk framers as members. The framing industry in the UK fail to see them as relevant to their businesses

My attitude now is that its worth belonging for the very simple reason that I have seen real progress locally by a branch that cares about framing standards and its members. It is, i suspect, a fairly unique position as we get framers travelling many miles to meetings. This does show that as framers we can move things forward and if enough of us make our views heard then things will change. We tend to get what we ask for.

Roboframer · Post by **Roboframer** » Tue 23 May, 2006 10:12 pm

markw wrote: My attitude now is that its worth belonging for the very simple reason that I have seen real progress locally by a branch that cares about framing standards and its members. It is, i suspect, a fairly unique position as we get framers travelling many miles to meetings. This does show that as framers we can move things forward and if enough of us make our views heard then things will change. We tend to get what we ask for.

I've said before that if I had a local branch that was actually 'local' I would re-join the guild in a heartbeat.

But why do we need a trade organisation just to get us to talk to each other face to face?

Early August I am flying to the US for a weekend seminar on fabric wrapping and other things, where I will meet a lot of 'Grumblers' that I have a rappore with. One grumbler is driving 9 hours each way to attend.

So, if I/they can do that, why can't I make it to Winchester or Tonbridge Wells a few times a year?

My point is that we do not need a trade organistion to get together, it's just all we have TO get us together and full marks to the FATG for that.

I think this forum should be promoted where and however possible, because it IS impartial and has the potential to be an extremely powerful tool and a very loud voice,

Framing Norah · Post by **Framing Norah** » Wed 24 May, 2006 6:19 am

Roboframer wrote:if I were to post a topic, right now, asking what, in the members' opinion, was the best for quality/performance/colour range/cost. I would receive some very well informed opinions - fast.

And a fair amount of drivel!

Unfortunately, on these fora, as in life, there are many with the misguided notion that they are quite expert on subjects about which they, in fact, know very little. They pontificate at length and with such confidence that after a time their word is accepted without question. I call it the Wide Mouth Frog syndrome. It can be fiendishly difficult at times to tell the difference between someone with genuine knowledge and a WMF.

Be extremely cautious about making decisions based on advice you find on a forum.

Roboframer · Post by **Roboframer** » Wed 24 May, 2006 7:45 pm

Norah,

If you ask a serious question on The Grumble, you get serious replies. Sure some come in with smartarse comments, some go off topic. With a membership of over 3000 you are bound to have a mix, but that mix starts at the VERY top of the trade.

Maybe some have misguided notions, but you don't get to SGF level (1000+ posts) without getting to know who is who and I can assure you that there are some, in fact a hec of a lot who are far far more than 'quite expert'

Some, like Jim Miller, who is well respected as an authority on the framing of 3D objects, freely shares his experience here, as does John Raines who I have met and is not only an outstanding framer, but a damn good businessman too.

Others give seminars, talks, demonstrations etc on every aspect of framing including running a business and designing/developing websites. As per this http://www.thegrumble.com/ubb/ultimateb ... 1;t=011113

Some write for PFM, are involved with FACTS, win National framing competitions etc etc; picking their brains is a privilege.

No-one's word is accepted without question just because they are prolific posters.

The Grumble has a separate forum for 'drivel' too - it's called 'warped moulding' and it's not all drivel either!

Framing Norah · Post by **Framing Norah** » Wed 24 May, 2006 9:32 pm

Roboframer wrote:Sure some come in with smartarse comments, some go off topic.
....

Maybe some have misguided notions

.....

No-one's word is accepted without question just because they are prolific posters.

!

Bit of a long-winded way, John, of saying that you are in total agreement with me.

You gotta be careful out there.

Roboframer · Post by **Roboframer** » Wed 24 May, 2006 10:38 pm

OK Norah,

Nice editing!

Smileys noted

The Grumble is a great place, so is this.

My latest bit of advice

DRY MOUNT EVERYTHING

MASKING TAPE IS BRILL FOR HINGES ON ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING. Hinges? What am I talking about? Stickitallthewayround GET IT ON THERE BABY!!

DON'T USE AN UNDERMOUNT - THE CUSTOMER CAN'T SEE IT FOR CHRISSAKES !!!! and by the time the MDF backing has wrecked the artwork, you'll be dead, or the customer will!!!

"Do you want to preserve this for future generations?"

"ER, well, I er, just want to get it on my wall actually, I have no family"

"OK, so, you must be at least 75 - reckon you've got about another 6 years in you before you croak"

"Well, actually I've just been diagnosed with this terrible disease...."

OK, so what - a year, 6 months?"

Well, if I'm lucky...."

"Ah, sod it, let's just set fire to it now...."

Merlin · Post by **Merlin** » Fri 02 Jun, 2006 12:47 pm

Have just received my 2006 copy of The Directory from FATG.
An interesting read !!

After many years of 'bending the ear' of the Guild, starting at the top with the MD about getting 'out there onto the High Street' and telling framers what they are all about and where they are coming from. Then getting told that a huge PR package has been actioned and running for about 18 months trying to encourage Framers to join up. I am really dissappointed with them.
An example of membership for the South West. Read in three columns

COUNTY...........2005............................2006
Cornwall..........9 members 1 GCF........5 members 1 GCF
Devon.............21 members 5 GCF........18 members 2 GCF
Dorset.............16 members 4 GCF.......11 members 4 GCF
Somerset........12 members 3 GCF........10 members 4 GCF
Gloucester.......19 members 9 GCF........16 members 8 GCF

In the Far West of Cornwall, the Yellow Pages boasts 81 picture framers, so 5 members is not a very good percentage.

Whilst membership fees are on the increase, from the above information it certainly looks like the membership is on the decrease.

So FATG, and I know some of you read this forum, can you please explain the trend and what has happened to this massive PR campaign.

I have said it before. You are missing a very large marketing potential. If only you would acknowledge this (and other) forums, join in and answer members queries. Give us updates. Information of what is new. Then you may just find that your membership increases.
Surely, information passed over the WWW has got to be a lot cheaper than information passed by postal 'snail mail'.
However, if you wish to stay out and support the 'corporate world' instead of supporting the 'local framer' then your funds will dry up very quickly, as nobody will support you.

aivar · Post by **aivar** » Wed 11 Oct, 2006 10:17 am

There can be because of low popularity this organization has decided to hire new members in Russia?

Post by **John** » Wed 11 Oct, 2006 10:48 am

Aivar, welcome to the forum!

I have just seen your website - wow. Do you carve all those frames by hand?

aivar · Post by **aivar** » Wed 11 Oct, 2006 11:17 am

Is very glad to be with you !!!

Unfortunately, we, now work only with ready moulding. However I especially study all technology to come nearer to manufacture of frames on classical samples. .
We in Russia practically do not have necessary information and the literature, therefore I assiduously study the Internet resources.
It is especially pleasant to see this remarkable forum. We on our web site too have a forum where we try to lift similar questions. But we are still very young - we have started in February.
http://www.art-ru.ru/forum/index.php
It in Russian but if to whom it is interesting it is possible to translate through the Internet the translator. Through it I and read your forum)))))
http://www.translate.ru

Post by **John** » Wed 11 Oct, 2006 11:55 am

Мы счастливы сделать нового российского друга. К сожалению переводчик не работает хорошо, переводя вебсайт с русского языка в английский язык. Однако, текст traslator работает хорошо

aivar · Post by **aivar** » Wed 11 Oct, 2006 12:20 pm

I am very happy to see my language on your site! I have already given on Russian Internet of the reference to your forum, and I hope, that now visitors from Russia here will be more often!
I also hope, as you can take part in our discussions, share the experience. I 12 years also find in this business necessary to assist beginners by virtue of that is no place to study in them.
In this connection the idea of representation PPFA in Russia is rather useful. However I am afraid, that the company on the basis of which this association enters in Россиию, will try to monopolize the right to a trade.
My idea consists in creation of own Association but which would be created on the basis of framers, instead of dealers. And its basic activity would be training and an exchange of experience, instead of sertifiсation professional opportunities.

Merlin · Post by **Merlin** » Wed 11 Oct, 2006 3:03 pm

John
Smart arse !!!! quite clever really..

aivar · Post by **aivar** » Wed 11 Oct, 2006 3:18 pm

To that?
Perfectly translates!
Especially " Smart arse "

Merlin · Post by **Merlin** » Wed 11 Oct, 2006 3:22 pm

Hi aivar
Welcome to the forum. I did not think that would translate across.
It obviously means the same, the world over.

aivar · Post by **aivar** » Wed 11 Oct, 2006 3:33 pm

Thanks for a greeting!
It is very interesting to me at you.
Unfortunately I know English not so absolutely to understand all subtleties of discussion, but professionals always will understand each other! I shall be glad at you to learn. As it appears, at us the same problems!
But nevertheless I ask to forgive me for my wrong speech.

clueless · Post by **clueless** » Thu 12 Oct, 2006 7:19 am

nearly 8000 views and we seem to have defined that the FATG are fairly useless as a framers organisation. With falling numbers they wont be around for much longer.

Framing Norah · Post by **Framing Norah** » Thu 12 Oct, 2006 8:00 am

Perhaps, we framers have overestimated our importance to the Guild. Does anybody know what percentage of the Guild's income is derived from the subscriptions of the ordinary rank and file framer member? And could it survive without the framers?

I had the impression that there must be a deliberate policy in place to ditch the framers, but according to another poster, a new member of staff has been recruited with the purpose of increasing membership, though it may not necessarily be framers that they are looking for.

Rosie Sumner, please tell us your vision for the future of the FATG. Does it include picture framers?

aivar · Post by **aivar** » Thu 12 Oct, 2006 8:53 am

As I spoke, probably they wish to increase quantity of participants, due to reception of new members from other countries.
But, even having necessary qualification, we not in a condition to provide standards in conservation works.
Recommended materials for Russia are rare and they are very dear, that they could be used constantly.
Therefore on these of the requirement of very few people there can correspond to a level FATG
However the Russian seller has begun the advertising company under the introduction into guild. Possibly it does it specially to increase sales of the goods.