What would you do?

[Keadyart]

I have taken on some new work from a photoghrapher.first order was completed,collected and paid for(everyone happy).Second order I placed my framing sticker on the back of the completed frames.The photographer said he didnt want them on,I asked him why?He said the frames were for his customers,I begrudgingly said"fine" and removed the stickers.
I don't like turning work away,but I dont think I will continue with this job,as I don't seem to be getting much from it,as he is getting a reduction on price for volume framing.
Not that the money is my main objection,it is more the fact of not being able to put my mark on my own work.
Am I being petty or too precious?

[Peter the framer]

With the wonderful gift of hindsight perhaps you should have sorted this out when you made the arrangement.

Perhaps say that in return for the discount you have given you require to put your label on the frames.

If he won't play then let him go.

[prospero]

I never put stickers on 'trade' stuff. If the boot were on the other foot, would you want someone else's branding on stuff you were selling?

You could hint that a few new customers coming your way from his recomendation would not go amiss. Give him a handful of biz cards.

[Roboframer]

What he said ^^^^^^^^^^^

Plus I'd happily put HIS sticker on the back!

He wants his customers to come back to him; not you - and that's fair enough. You could get more work from it - his customers wanting other stuff framed to match stuff you made, bought from him, and as long as it doesn't come in one or two at a time and/or with nothing else, then it's still volume/repeat work, plus you've been saved the time of taking the order.

[Bill Henry]

Without the sticker, you get none of the credit, but you also get none of the blame, either.

I’d let it go. If the ultimate customer eventually finds fault with his selection, he’ll go back to the photographer, not you.

[Keadyart]

Thanks for the replies ,gives me plenty to think about.
Cheers

[WelshFramer]

Don't the FATG rules say that framers should always put a sticker on the back of their frames?

I'd always thought that was one of their sensible rules.

[Steve N]

Bill is right, no sticker, no hassle , once did a job for a photographic shop, put our label on, a few days later the photographic shop's customer came in, really bad mood and starts f-inkg and cussing that he did not like the way we framed it (did not like bevel on the mount, wanted a straight cut window ), I told him that we had framed it as per instructions of the photographic shop, and he should take it up with them, turns out that he had already spoken to them, and they told him to come and see us ( same thing would have happened if we never put our sticker on the back of the frame) in fact they were frightened of him, he was a BIG coloured guy. Anyway after a while he calmed down a bit, I told him, he should not ask the photographic shop to frame his photo, as they have no idea about framing and he should come to see me in future, in fact he became a very good customer and friend, he now knows how to frame a photo the best way. So if doing trade work do not put your sticker on the back of the frames, unless you have some special ones done with somthing like: framed by (your name and details) on behalf of (customer name), again this is something you will have to work out with your trade customer.

[prospero]

I sometimes have work from artists on SOR and sometimes thay have their sticker on the back. I don't like this. For a start, if I am acting as an agent for someone I would never dream of divulging their personal details. And secondly, if a customer buys the painting and sees the sticker on the back, they are very likely to go direct to the artist if they want more and try and cut out the middle man. Namely moi.

[RobinC]

I would do as the paying customer asks, and do it cheerfully.

We do a lot of work for photographers and artists and will always do what they require. Yes, you have given him discount, but so will every other framer in the area.

If you are still not happy with not putting your label on and are prepared to let him go, could you send him my way please.

Thanks

Robin

[Keadyart]

My reason for putting my sticker on the work,is firstly to let whoever purchases will know that I framed the piece,as I understand he is also putting a sticker on the work,presumably to let the customer know that he takes photographs.
Secondly,I dont agree with the no sticker no hassle,as I will stand by any work I have done.
Robin C ,If he does ever come back ,which I doubt he will,I will certainly pass on your details,feel free to email me
brian.keadyart@btinternet.com
Cheers
Brian

[kev@frames]

no-stickers is a very frequent request amongst photographers, least ways down these parts.

with all due respect to our photographer colleagues on the forum (to whom the following statement obviously does not apply) it is because as well as being
A) mosty tight g*ts
they are also:
B) often ridiculously paranoid that their "competitors" will find their framing "source".
C) dont want people to know where they get the frames so that their "markup" is a matter between themselves and their accountants.
D) they are making a massive markup on the frames and/or mounts which bears no relation whatsoever the the conversely daft low prices they sell their photographs at unframed.

To be fair, B and C are fair enough if they are getting trade quantities. D is their problem, and A is something we can't do anything about.

Leave the stickers off, they'll only cover them up with their own anyway :-/

[Jonny2morsos]

I do a fair amount of this sort of work but it is mostly supply of frame, glass, backing board +/- a mount into which the photographers fix their photos. Note I said fix and not mount as most often they sellotape/masking tape/magic tape the photos in place attaching all four sides so I do not want to be associated with this level of workmanship. They are also not brilliant at cleaning the glass etc.

As well as this they are not good at repeating the customers instructions regarding mount colours and postioning of photos so you don't want customers coming back to you when they don't get what they expect.

Personally I would not contemplate putting my sticker on this work as they are not my customers in addition to the reasons above.

John.

[elly-d]

I don't have a sticker, but I do sign and date the back of the frame...but only on the jobs that I am proud of, meaning not the cheap or really badly chosen orders that the customers really wanted.

I wouldn't put a sticker on trade stuff though.

[prospero]

Come to think of it, I ran out of stickers about 15 years ago and haven't stickered a frame since. Must get some more printed.......

[Steve N]

Totally agree with Kev and John on this, especially points C and D in Kev's post.

Steve

[WelshFramer]

I normally put stickers on everything I do including frames for artists and photographers who sell their work on. The sticker contains the date and job number. The job number is also the invoice number and the number on the job sheet that is filed away.

So if there's something wrong with the framing the final customer knows where to complain.

Doing this has brought me extra work that I wouldn't have had otherwise. A few times customers have brought stuff in for reframing (so I get paid twice for framing the same picture) but more often they bring other work in for framing. I've even had work from people who haven't bought anything but have seen my sticker on pictures in exhibitions or craft fairs.

Seems to me that it pays to advertise as much as possible.

[framejunkie]

I see it as a responsibility to put a sticker on my frames - for once i agree with the FATG( ). Its about accountability and traceability. Normally if an artist or gallerist wants no sticker they relent once i've explained this. If they really want to they can take the bloody thing off the backing board

Having said that, i will not put a sticker on anything that isn't totally finished when it leaves my workshop, ie fully fitted up and taped up on the back. If the artist or photographer is fitting their work to my frames i cannot vouch for their work so don't feel like I'm responsible for the final object. Its a quandry when someone has made a poor frame or mount choice, because someone seeing that frame may think I made the decisions, but I then think I'm only vouching for the quality of the craftsmanship. Maybe i should print different stickers which make this clear, but that would create bad feeling with my customer - and often this type of customer is in the business so i would hope they come back again and again.

One time i had someone bring a frame i made back to me as they were not happy with it - the drawing had been fitted slightly wonky and the back sealed up badly and they came in ready to give me hell. I looked it over and realised the artist had refitted a different drawing to my frame. Once I'd gone through the reasons why i could be sure of this the customer was appeased, but still wouldn't pay me to fit it up properly, so left in a bit of a huff. Hopefully they only bad-mouthed the artist to their friends though

[ross]

I see no problem with a photographer using my framing services requesting his sticker be applied to the back of each frame unit completed at his request - I would rather have a good working relationship with my customers (ie in this case the photographer).In the case of photographers, we do work on better price structures for them, working on the basis of volume of work picking up on the lower prices

To date I haven't done work that wasn't fully assembled for any photographer, so I know that the workmanship is good and the photographer's customers are going to be happy with the completed work. So while our sticker isn't on the completed frame units, we continue to get the next batch of work and it too will be completed and sent out without our sticker. Turnover is the name of the game!!

Ross

[prospero]

Good point framejunkie. Maybe the sticker should go in a place where you can't open the frame without destroying the sticker, like on the backing tape. "Tamper Evident" as they say in the trade.



** Where I used to work many moons ago, among many other things they made plastic cases for alarm clocks. They all had "Made in Scotland" on them.