Am I Too Expensive # 2 ?

[griff buch]

I have just completed a reglaze job which was a Stones poster that had probably been languishing in a shed for 20 years. It is destined for the kids playroom (they're at private school) and my customer thought it was expensive, which, according to the computor, is £61.81 net.
If I do a similar job (650 x 920) from scratch it comes out at £77.52 (moulding £1.25 p/m). I would love to know what you guys think.
Reglaze New Frame
Mldg --- 4.18
Gl/Back 2.99 4.35
Sundries 2.67 2.67
Material Total 5.66 11.20
Labour 45.11 41.88
Net Profit 11.04 24.44

Total 61.81 77.52

I believe the consception is 'it's just a reglaze'; however the amount of work invoved is greater than a new frame; I include a small hassel- factor in the labour charge. My customer also gets the frame cleaned and refitted where it's breaking apart, a new back and string plus, in this instance, the print is dry mounted.
I don't want to reduce my prices and if anyone is charging a lot less I hope they will increase their's.

[gesso]

Firstly I am a little concerned that such a large picture with glass is in a kiddies playroom Very dangerous and maybe if you have re glazed it with glass you should contact the owner and advise them to switch to acrylic. Now back to your main point your price does seem a little on the WHATside! my calculation for a re-glaze is about £30 that's for defitting,new glass and refitting. Any additional work ontop of that and it's not really a just reglaze

[prospero]

It's not expensive from your point of veiw. As you point out, a 're-do' job often takes longer than one done from scratch. Problem is, in the customer's mind he is just buying a sheet of glass. He doesn't see the hassle.

Stick to your guns or you will lose money. If the customer think's it's to expensive, he can always take the hassle elsewhere.

[kev@frames]

good point made.
i dont think that's too expensive, what with average framers overheads and costs, vat, hassle etc.

your customer paid, didn't they. so there you are! That answers the question, in this case it wasn't too expensive.

we are happy when 1 out of 3 customers walk away because they think its too expensive. means you are getting 2/3 of the jobs you quote for and, in theory, making about the max your local market will pay.

Remember that one out of ten will think anything is too expensive.

remembering that turnover is vanity and profit is sanity whats the point in doing five jobs for forty quid each when you could have done just three the same for sixty quid each and made more profit for less labour.

we've been through this before on the forum, although framing is a technical and skilled job many framers are afriad to charge a "proper" rate, sadly there will always be an element in the business who are too cheap and devalue the job as a whole for everyone else.

Framing is a discretionary (luxury) purchase, not an "essential" in most cases (unless its an artist). Trouble is many of us framers forget that.

[Not your average framer]

It would have been best to give the customer a copy of the order stating exactly what he will be charged, when he left the job with you. If he knew how much this was going to cost him, before leaving it with you, there would be no problem.

[Davie]

Hi, £60 odd quid seems steep to me, for a twenty minute max job, that said if it needs dry mounted frame fixed etc etc i would advise that maybe a new frame is in order, but a simple reglaze £25 plus VAT from me, they are no real hassle and if you do get a frame in thats in bad condition then simply advise that you will strip it apart and call them regarding price.....

[griff buch]

Sorry guys- I 've just noticed that my list for the costings hasn't come out as I had typed it. There should be two columns of figures, one for the reglaze and one for the new frame in order to compare side by side.
I started this topic because I myself sometimes don't believe the computor and feel that I'm asking a lot of money, however the elements of the costing are exactly the same for the two jobs apart from the frame and the small hassle factor; my complete job price I'm happy with but I'm very aware that other framers charge a lot less for a reglaze. If this message does nothing except get Gesso to up his reglaze price to £40 I shall be happy.
As I said previously 'it's only a reglaze' but many framers, particularly new comers to the trade, feel they can't charge the full value.

It would have been best to give the customer a copy of the order stating exactly what he will be charged, when he left the job with you. If he knew how much this was going to cost him, before leaving it with you, there would be no problem.

The customer got a printed invoice so the price was agreed but there was probably a discussion when they got home.

Firstly I am a little concerned that such a large picture with glass is in a kiddies playroom Very dangerous

The kids in question are teenagers and are probably more into sex, drugs and rock & roll.

[gesso]

. If this message does nothing except get Gesso to up his reglaze price to £40 I shall be happy.

My costings are accurate to my out goings After 22 years think I'll stick.
Plus get them in for the cheep jobs lets them see what I can really do that no one else does, then sell em the really profitable work.

Thanks for the advice though I'ld love to bump my prices by 33%.

Ps teenagers bleed too,,, If I remember way back when I was one, sex was a pretty energetic romp!

Ahhh
[youtube]X5pkkAhETYg[/youtube]

[Jonny2morsos]

Not sure if you are including the dry mounting in what you are charging but my price would be around £30 just to fit new glass.

I feel it should be more but there is a limit to what people will pay and as someone said they will see it as simply buying a new piece of glass.

If people don't think they are getting reasonable value they tend to vote with their feet and while they will not complain too much you may never see them again and they may voice their opinion to their friends (potential customers). There is, I believe, a certain amount of PR involved in doing these sort of jobs at a reasonable price in that they bring in more work.

John.

[markw]

I would have charged around £45 - but that could have gone up if I had to clean tape off etc. I often think I am too cheap on reglazes as I could have done more profitable work in the time. Personally, I like the odd customer telling me I am expensive - its the ones who tell me I'me cheap I hate.

[birdman]

If we do re-glaze jobs then we never charge less than for a new frame. As you say it is more work dismantling, cleaning, minor repairs, getting rid of the awful sticky tape or masking tape, etc and then putting it all back together again.

If the frame has to be repaired as well then that is additional cost. If the customer prefers to buy a new frame then that's OK with me. I normally replace the fittings, add a new back, maybe even new glass as part of the job, so I think they get value for money.

Reminds me of my old broom that I've had for thirty years and it's only ever had 5 new heads and three new shafts and it's still like brand new! Now that's value for money.

Rolf

[Roboframer]

Reminds me of my old broom that I've had for thirty years and it's only ever had 5 new heads and three new shafts and it's still like brand new! Now that's value for money.

Rolf

You're alright Dave, but Del don't look nothin' like Tonto!

I welcome re-glazing jobs, more than 60% will turn in to one or all of the following in addition.

Total re-frame
New mount(s)
New undermounts and backing
UV or even musem glass

If it's just replacing the old glass then it's

Unfitting
New glass
Fitting (including new hardware)

it wouldn't be that much more for a total re-frame in some cases but sometimes the old frame is part of a set etc. No skin off my nose either way.

[Davie]

Birdman wrote.......If we do re-glaze jobs then we never charge less than for a new frame. As you say it is more work dismantling, cleaning, minor repairs, getting rid of the awful sticky tape or masking tape, etc and then putting it all back together again.

If the frame has to be repaired as well then that is additional cost. If the customer prefers to buy a new frame then that's OK with me. I normally replace the fittings, add a new back, maybe even new glass as part of the job, so I think they get value for money.


I would never get away with charging for a new frame then not supplying it.....If you do will you send some of these mug punters to me?
anyway a customer coming in for new glass in there pic i would i say would replace the glass and not maybe as you say. Any repairs or hassle is upping the cost but a simple glass replacement, COME ON, Strip it apart as they wait 2 minutes tell them the cost and thats it....they wont want to take it away in bits anyhow......Fair job at a fair price and if its down to time spent on it, well maybe some folks just take a little longer to do a job and on the basis of the frame mentioned 2x3 foot you would charge eg. £100 plus for a half decent frame.....Now thats expensive to have a piece of glass replaced. I take my hat off to you....wish i had customers that were happy with that.

[Nigel Nobody]

Plus get them in for the cheep jobs lets them see what I can really do that no one else does, then sell em the really profitable work.

The logic of this totally escapes me! If someone gets a cheap job done (that you haven't made any money on) what ensures they will buy "really profitable" jobs? If a customer thinks you are cheap, they most likely will go somewhere else when you quote them an expensive price on another job.
Isn't it best to have a pricing structure that is consistent over all types of jobs so that a living can be made. Consistency of pricing ensures that your customers will get comfortable with you and trust you. Inconsistency in pricing or 'pot luck" pricing seems a little unprofessional to me!