Guild Revisited

[John]

I attended the FATG Northern Ireland branch meeting last night.

There were over 20 present, some making a three hour journey to attend. It turned out to be an informative, and entertaining evening.

It made me realise that while the forum is a vital resource for framers, it is no substitute for actually getting together to chew the fat once in a while.

I had a brief chat with Rosie, who made it clear that she did not believe that the FATG should participate in the forum in any way.

While this stance can be a bit frustrating to some of us, we have got to respect her for trying to protect the interests of the Guild and its members, as she sees it.

I sincerely hope that in time we can persuade her to reconsider.

[Merlin]

Thankyou for that John.

I had a brief chat with Rosie, who made it clear that she did not believe that the FATG should participate in the forum in any way.

SHE did not believe or the Guild Court did not believe. It would be interesting to find out, once and for all, why the FATG should not participate in a Forum that is picture framing based from an organisation that is supposed to support picture framers.

Yes, I respect her views and her opinions - hey I many strong ones too - What interests of the Guild and its members is she trying to protect? when a lot of the members would dearly like to see an involvement from an organisation that is supposed to be supporting us.

Surely, by the weight and numbers of communications that the Guild have had in the past and are having now, they must realise something is not quite right. Tell me, whoever wants to reply, if you heard rumblings or had received numerous complaints or suggestions about your own shop or workspace, then surely you would do something about it and not just dismiss it. You never know it might just help you to take your bllinkers off and expand your business.

[sarah]

Thankyou for that John.

Tell me, whoever wants to reply, if you heard rumblings or had received numerous complaints or suggestions about your own shop or workspace, then surely you would do something about it and not just dismiss it. You never know it might just help you to take your bllinkers off and expand your business.

But Merlin you are crediting the guild and the head honchos with vision, something they are clearly lacking.

I honestly don't see them changing their minds. It seems to me that if your face fits you're in and all is well if you dare question or even try to advance you're shot down.

I reckon Rosie and the others are scared, they're scared that they may have to face facts and actually admit they haven't a clue!

[markw]

Personally I dont agree with Rosy that the FATG shouldnt become involved in this forum. But! You have to ask yourself who within the FATG would become involved. Rosie as MD is never going to offer advice on framing issues - she's a professional manager running the organisation. She may want to comment on why the guild is losing members - I wouldnt if I was in her shoes.
I would want my membership manager looking for opportunities to use the forum positively and I would actively encourage my expert advisers to become part of the forum.
The lack of any comprehension of the advantages to be gained, coupled with the suspicion that the forum will be used to bash the guild does worry me.

John is correct when he comments that meeting other framers in the flesh is good and its a part of the FATG structure that is very positive. ( Cotswold Branch meeting next week).

We do have to be careful when looking at this forum to not get carried away by the comments of very few activly posting members. The Guild is still a positive well established part of our industry that needs all of our support, and, whilst I am very aware of its shortcomings, I still think that we would be better off supporting and participating. ( like this forum - many like too look - but they dont want to get involved).

[Merlin]

MarkW

I would want my membership manager looking for opportunities to use the forum positively and I would actively encourage my expert advisers to become part of the forum.

Exactly Mark. Thats it in a nutshell.
I also belong to the Guild of Mastercraftsmen. When I emailed them about membership numbers in the South West, Oh Boy did they move. They got off their shiny arses and hit the streets, face to face. I belong to a vehicle breakdown organisation, they do not expect me to do their job and canvas and collect new members.
When I mentioned this to the Guild all I got is something similiar to a reply on another thread. "Well get out there and organise an event in the South West and we will attend". If I was on the payroll then yes I would do.
Even last year when Rosie was at the new Tate Gallery in St Ives- 25 miles away - She said that she would come and see me. She Didnt. The previous IT manager, who actually was interested in the Forum, said that he would contact me to discuss how I thought the Guild could get involved and help. He did not. 3 weeks ago, Samantha said that she would get the new membership secretary and the new IT manager to contact me. Still waiting, but its only 3 weeks so early days yet.
So I think that 'Guild Bashing' as you put it is fair game. Whilst many of the actively posting members are quite vocal on here, I wonder just how many of the picture framers out there are voting with their feet and not joining an organisation that does not openly support framers.
I am only a newbie, I sat my GCF only 7 years ago and have tried long and hard to support and participate from the inside by being a member. Yes, we as members are very aware of its shortcomings and are only trying to help. The Guild must do its part and take the blinkers off!!

[Roboframer]

As I said on the other thread - I've written them off - I don't want to know what they are doing - I'm not going to chase them with my wallet and whetever I could contribute later on - and I think I could actuallly make a contribution. There is probably more skill and experience outside the FATG than within, for some the FATG is beneath them, that's the group I now class myself in - they are not worthy and I couldn't give one.

Why the hell should I after the pathetic responses I have just had?

I want to be part of a FRAMING organisation - stuff the ART stuff the FINE art even more - that is such an ambiguous term anyway.

This is a framing organistation - RIGHT HERE.

I have a cold - I have had a couple of Single Islay malts - as you do (Bowmore) and do not trust myself to say more!

[Underpinner]

It really is getting silly. We now have three separate threads featuring various niggles about the FATG and this is not counting the others going back almost to the beginning of this forum.
I would argue that surely, after all this time, the absence (so far as I am aware) of an unequivocal statement by the FATG concerning the issues that we have debated here over the years, is itself the answer that we have been seeking? So why are we still debating this topic? Why don't we just take the hint. When IS the penny going to drop?

[Roboframer]

Fair comment.

Let's not mention things we think when our memories are jolted, let's just say "We refer the hon member to previous postings'

While we're at it let's not mention pricing - hey - as long as it works for us and our own respective books balance - who gives one.

Who cares if, whilst making those books balance, we staple the Bayeux Tapestry to a slab of untreated pine or spray mount the Mona Lisa! So lets not beat our gums too much on conservation - lets's just say "CONSERVATION FRAMING IS BEST FOR VALUABLE STUFF" and call it a day.

Blah blah -

The reason that the debates continue JW, is that one day 'they' may just see the light, be it the FATG or some pillock that actually WOULD treat priceless art in the above way. It's also just natural debate, as per 'down the pub' - could you imagine it ...

"Phwor - look at the cleavage on THAT barmaid Bob"

"AH shuttup Pete - you said that the other night"

[Roboframer]

I'd add that all these three posts are pretty much history - last post was 3 weeks ago - it's dead, or should be. Maybe someone else will have an issue with the FATG on a totally different subject, or maybe they will have a success story or want to sing their praises.

But instead of starting a new topic, they'll maybe drag this one to the fore again, as you have.

We only have three separate threads because they hang about for so long due to the small number of daily posts, it's just the way it is at present. I'm sure that in time these threads will dissapear from the first page as it's just so busy.

But if and when that happens, until we have a body that represents us properly, we will all whinge about the one that we have at the moment that does not!

Maybe this forum, or something borne from it - WILL and it won't happen without discussing the pros and cons of the FATG. There is far more to come on the subject of the FATG.