FATG Renewal

Merlin · Post by **Merlin** » Thu 30 Nov, 2006 5:31 pm

Have just received my membership renewal from

The Fine Art Trade Guild: your industry sector's trade body

£198.24

I think NOT considering the NON events and NO acknowledgements of various inputs by me over this past year.

That now leaves only 1 (ONE) GCF in the whole of Cornwall. Such a shame.

I have tried to change them/ advise them/ interact with them from the inside - as people keep saying to do - All has fallen on deaf ears and that brick wall has won.

I will have to change my signature now to GCF Retired!!

kev@frames · Post by **kev@frames** » Thu 30 Nov, 2006 7:08 pm

Must say Im beginning to agree with you there John.
I cant say the FATG seem very relevant to our business these days, neither a help or a hinderance, just irrelevant.

two hundred quid is a lot to pay for a magazine subscription, and their non-participation in this forum is inexplicable and rather insulting (seeing as this has become the UK's main framers online board, and we all seem to use this and the grumble in preference to any facilities offered by the FATG)

Looks like this latest renewal may be our last one, too. Just check out whether the credit card machine rates change, and what the fatg yellow pages ad seems to be worth for next year, but im pretty sure the organisation has run its course, it has not moved with the times, particularly the vast increase in internet work and technology that most of us seem to have.

Specially those of us with CMS and computers in the shop, we have workshops that resemble a borg ship, and a representitive organisation that resembles the titanic.

Begs the question: What are they for?

best regards
Kev

Merlin · Post by **Merlin** » Thu 30 Nov, 2006 7:18 pm

When B O S card machines were taken over by eThales, we lost the Guild discount. However, after a series of renegotiation with BOS we got even a better deal.

Yellow Pages. Found that to be a waste of money as well. After 1 year of asking people who telephoned, How did they find us. only a handfull (if that really) said it was by YP, most were from the local business directory or by the power of GOOGLE.

Two hundred notes will go a long way towards getting - maybe - this visualisation package that John has got on this site. That could be more beneficial in the longer term.

norymags · Post by **norymags** » Thu 30 Nov, 2006 7:44 pm

When oh when will I ever stop reading about the precious Fine Art Trade Guild and all its idiosyncrasies.....

Why dont we ban the FATG from the forum and get out more often

Why dont we stop reading about it and get on with life without the FATG

And why do we may so much lip service to a trade guild who quite honesty couldn`t care less about the framing fraternity.

And discuss cricket or rugby or anything but the FATG....please

Anyone bought a new tool recently??????

Norrie.

Roboframer · Post by **Roboframer** » Thu 30 Nov, 2006 7:48 pm

norymags wrote:When oh when will I ever stop reading about the precious Fine Art Trade Guild and all its idiosyncrasies.....

When you stop clicking on topics headed "FATG" I suppose!

Merlin · Post by **Merlin** » Thu 30 Nov, 2006 7:53 pm

Hi Norrie
If everybody kept quiet, then the (precious) FATG will sit there quite happy thinking that what they are doing if fine.

One day, somebody from the FATG will read this Forum and realise that maybe everything within their hallowed sancom is not fine, and there some unhappy framers out on the street.

As an analogy, we - as framers- complained long and hard about the rebate depth on moulding. Slowly, yes very slowly, manufactures listened and now there are a lot more deep rebates about.

Oh the power of the internet!!

Roboframer · Post by **Roboframer** » Thu 30 Nov, 2006 11:52 pm

And while we discuss their faults we can learn from them, and one day maybe we wil have a trade body that does it for us.

As it stands it seems they are painting themselves into a corner, framing-wise that is. But just think about it - are they bovvered?

Are they ec as like! Just look at the stands at the Spring Fair - wot's new on the framing side of things - BUGGER ALL - that's what. Suppliers are diminishing.

Did you know that recently D&J Simons were not going to show (this is not official) and knowing what effect that would have on attendance of us framers (Other suppliers would also pull out) they were offered their usual HUGE stand for bugger all? (or next to - a good deal)

As for the AUTUMN fair - Framing? forget it!

It's all prints - even ready-framed stuff - stuff that makes me cringe!

It is .....

The .......

FINE ART

Trade Guild

Let's not all kid ourselves into thinking that they are any sort of authority on framing. The GCF test - even the advanced 'modules' represents bog standard stuff that a good framer gets in all the time.

Their levels of framing SUCK and they fail miserably to identify what is good and what is not so regards mountboard.

What it all boils down to, at the end of the day and when all is said and done, is that they run a business, they do what it says on their tin and it don't mention framing. So Screw 'em!

markw · Post by **markw** » Sat 02 Dec, 2006 1:23 am

better ways to spend the membership renewal fee.
Buy a new tool is quite good - with the price of computers falling rapidly it would go a long way towards a new PC.
new smart label printer - nice set of clamps - I would miss the magazine, but not that much - continue my subscription to PFM seems to be a fair exchange.

The Fine Art label is also a bit misleading as they have precious few artists members - what they do have is a few big publishers - so hardly surprising that the one last value they had in controlling limited editions has been compromised.

Not your average framer · Sat 02 Dec, 2006 9:41 pm

Mark,

You used to speak in their favour, but now if guys like you ain't happy about renewing their membership, where's the incentive for non-members like me to consider joining. I had intended joining at some future time, but not when long term, back bone members like you can't see the point in staying members, one has to think why bother?

The smart label machine might be my best choice too!

Roboframer · Post by **Roboframer** » Sat 02 Dec, 2006 9:45 pm

For all my negativity, which I stand by, I would still join if I had an active local branch within reasonable distance.

Not your average framer · Sat 02 Dec, 2006 10:00 pm

Yes, so would I, but there is not one anywhere near me at all.

Keith Hewitt · Post by **Keith Hewitt** » Sun 03 Dec, 2006 4:53 am

May I make a suggestion?
Lets call a truce until Feb 2007 - no more FATG bashing for 10 weeks until Spring Fair at B'ham. Then those of you who have complaints/suggestions about FATG go along to FATG stand and have a face to face. It is obvious they are never going to answer your complaints on this forum, so arrange to go along as a group - (you know who you are!)

This suggestion will mean we can have 10 weeks FATG free on this forum and discuss matters to do with framing.

After your meeting then by all means have 1 spokesman post a summary of the meeting.

Keith Hewitt

markw · Post by **markw** » Sun 03 Dec, 2006 10:15 am

I wouldn't regard this as FATG bashing, and the posting is very relevant to framers who are considering forking out the best part of £200 pounds to continue membership. I regard a representative body as being an important part of any industry - but that organisation must represent the body of the industry. The FATG fails to do that in so many ways as displayed by their inability to attract and keep new members.

My personal opinion is that the FATG has had its day - it fails miserably to listen to the opinions of the majority of businesses within the industry and therefore cant claim to be representative.

I would put forward one example that demonstrates well the standing that our industry has - having been represented by the FATG. We have the formation of some very sound measures of competence in the GCF scheme. This ought to be the backbone of a formal industry wide training scheme - accepted by educational and government bodies - it isn't. NO training scheme exists within the UK for youngsters to come in to our business and become formally trained as picture framers. I suspect the reality of this lack of recognition is due to the low percentage of businesses who are FATG members.

I would also point out that all is not rosy (no pun intended) with the relationship between some of the mount board manufacturing businesses and the FATG. Many publishers are fed up with the guilds decisions and very few artist members seem to stay longer than twelve months.

Turning up at the spring fair en-Mass to voice our opinion - do you really think it would be listened to?

norymags · Post by **norymags** » Sun 03 Dec, 2006 5:59 pm

John, I was one of the Framers who complained about the rebate on mouldings too and collectivley we managed to raise the profile (no pun intended) of mouldings and yes you are right about highlighting topics on the forum.

The last forum regarding the FATG attracted some 87 replies (thinking out loud) and it was very well addressed, the point is it has resurfaced so soon after the last one.

I think the time that the FATG start conveying replies to the forum addressing FATG issues is the time I will start listening.

As to Roboframer I think it was a bit cheap to reply in the fashion you did, we ALL want to contribute.

Merlin · Post by **Merlin** » Sun 03 Dec, 2006 7:02 pm

Keith, your suggestion is heard and believe me has been actioned not just by me but many other unhappy Guild members. For the past 3 years, I and others have had a face to face at the NEC with the MD and Membership Secretaries. My letters in the ABT and on this Forum will stand testament to that fact.

It was me in discussion with the MD in February this year who started the ball rolling for the meeting in Plymouth a few months ago. Yet only 4 people showed any interest. That is from the whole of Cornwall and Devon area combined. I have not canvassed all of the 81 Yellow Page picture framers, yet of the 25% or so that I have, only a handful knew anything about it. The common question is “Who are the FATG?”

Forgive me, this is not a ‘hit’ on you. Surely you as a business person would want to know if you are doing anything wrong or your customers are unhappy with your service. If nobody said anything – Good or Bad about your business, then you would be quite happy continuing in ignorance, not really knowing what was right or wrong or even what could be done better. This Forum now has 301 members (and increasing). What a superb way of getting your message or mission statement across with only one thread input.

I joined the FATG as I really do believe in belonging to a professional body – I am also a member of the Guild of Master Craftsmen. Not once have I been asked or told to ‘get out there and spread the word’ by them, as the Guild MD did!. In fact quite the opposite, they telephone me and ask me if there is anything else they can do or do I have any suggestions. That is why I am happy to pay them a membership fee. They care.

I took the GCF exam, again because I believe in gaining the right qualifications. Yes it gave me a very good grounding and knowledge base to start with. Further reading and further questions on this Forum and other Forums have added to that knowledge and has allowed me to at least establish a working practice datum that I will not drop below. I would say that 98% of my customers do not know who the FATG is or what they stand for, yet on the other hand some 60% have heard of the G of MC.

RoboFramer. Why would you join if you had an active local branch, is there something that they could do that Head Office cannot do?

Norymags hits the nail on the head. “I was one of the framers who complained……. Collectively we managed to raise the profile…… highlighting topics on the forum”

That is what this Forum is about. Like minded professionals from all corners of the globe, interacting, questioning and learning from each others experience. We do this here, because our various locations and personal agendas do not allow us meet as a group. For me the NEC is a 600 mile or 10 hour round trip.

Long may this Forum continue, even with contentious topics. It is an extremely well moderated Forum to boot!

Roboframer · Post by **Roboframer** » Sun 03 Dec, 2006 10:29 pm

Merlin Framers wrote:
RoboFramer. Why would you join if you had an active local branch, is there something that they could do that Head Office cannot do?

Just to get together with like-minded people - or people I have bags in common with.

I can do that here but it's not quite the same and it's all on record - believe me there's plenty I'd not put in print - not all neccessarily bad/negative things either.

markw · Post by **markw** » Wed 06 Dec, 2006 8:56 am

One of the very positive things that the FATG enable is the branch meeting - and as Robo says he would attend if he had one. The reality is that you dont need a formal structure to hold meetings - you just need a few people with enough enthusiasm to make the arrangements - find a speaker etc. In my experience the FATG provide very little effective organisation when it comes to branch level activity - a list of framers and a few telephone calls could do a better job. The advantage of getting to know your fellow conspirators can be very positive. If you get the right speaker - say from one of the bigger companies, then they are often happy to sponsor events.

The Framers Forum

FATG Renewal

FATG Renewal

Lets call a truce!