Simons

[Teresa]

I use Simons all the time and generally have no problems,I'm doing a some big mirror's at the moment and need between 15 & 19ft for each one. there has been so much damage I've had to re order twice. lot's of dents and edge's broken off. look's like the strapping is too tight. anyone else had problems ?

[Jamma]

yea all the time thats why i,d rather pay more and just use arqadia as simones are useless and any 1who says there good then i,d like to see the frames they make up

[Roboframer]

I love Simons - they're not just good. they're great, and here's a frame I made up from one of their mouldings as per your request. You can buy the exact same thing with the exact same reference for approx 30% more from A.N. other supplier (not Arqadia) if you like though.

001.JPG

[Not your average framer]

simones are useless and any 1who says there good then i,d like to see the frames they make up

This is a very influential forum and those who post here should act accordingly.

Is it fair to rubbish a supplier without saying why? I think not! This is the sort of thing we have learned to expect from politicians who rubbish there opponents with vague statements which they hope they will never have to be questioned about. Any attempt to respond to such an attack makes you look desparate, weak and potentially can damage your reputation.

How can a supplier respond to such an opinion where no attempt has been made to justify or explain what is claimed. How would you protect your business reputation if someone in your locality was making similar unsupported comments against your business. You can't, neither can they!

I would not be sorry to see the offending post removed!

[Jonny2morsos]

Ever considered it might be the people who handle it after it leaves Simons?

I get that problem sometimes with my Arqadia deliveries and I am pretty sure most of the damage is due to the carriers. On two occasions I have had size 12 footprints on the packaging with comensurate damage to the moulding. OK Arqadia never quibble about replacements/credits especially if you email photographic proof but it is a pain waiting for replacements to arrive.

Lion deliver their mouldings wrapped in big bubble, bubble wrap then corrugated cardboard where as with Arqadia you only get the corrugated cardboard. I would not be surprised if they have done the sums and worked out less packaging is cheaper than paying for damaged moulding.

Having just read NYAF's post I agree with his sentiments. If you have a problem with a supplier talk to them not us.

[Roboframer]

Mouldings can leave a supplier in perfect condition but still arrive with chunks missing. Inspect the packaging, if there are any tears etc then note them on the delivery slip that you sign and if there is damage to the mouldings inside; inform the supplier that you have done that so that they can claim from the carrier.

Having said that most suppliers use the same sort of packaging, a roll of corrugated cardboard, sometimes just one layer. We rarely have problems with Simons but we regularly have problems with Arqadia, and that is usually down to the carrier; not the supplier. Something as simple as a new driver or depot staff could ruin your day.

I rarely have goods from Nielsen delivered by carrier as I'm on their van route, but any stuff from them that does arrive by carrier (TNT) is wrapped as per Simons and Arqadia and THEN THAT IS PUT IN A BOX, never a problem.

They all have different reparation systems as well - Arqadia's is usually (it will depend on the value) just chuck it and a replacement plus a credit note arrives next day. Most others demand collection, either by a rep or a carrier, which makes extra work for you when it's not your fault.

It would be great to have a supplier that had the swiftest and most quibble-free system, but never needed it!

[misterdiy]

Well, of all our moulding suppliers, we used to have most from Simons. The largest selection and the best prices. The trouble is the damage when we recieve it. It got so bad last year that I wrote to the Directors and complained because it was not the carriers. Simons use the same carrier as Lion and they dont have damage problems and of course we inspect the packages for damage before they are opened.

Alas the problem is at Simons and not the carriers. Every batch of moulding from Simons has some damage and it is rare to get a length of moulding without some scuffs or dents. We wont send out jobs with scuffed or dented mouldings and it is too tiresome to keep sending the moulding back for small imperfections so we cut round it but our wastage on Simons moulding is astronomic. That makes their moulding prices as dear or dearer than their competitors.

Other suppliers do seem to take more care of the moulding and pack it better. Shame they have such a wide range of good mouldings (especially the "traditional" styles)

Steve

[Roboframer]

. Simons use the same carrier as Lion and they dont have damage problems

Lion deliver their mouldings wrapped in big bubble, bubble wrap then corrugated cardboard

I rarely have goods from Nielsen delivered by carrier as I'm on their van route, but any stuff from them that does arrive by carrier (TNT) is wrapped as per Simons and Arqadia and THEN THAT IS PUT IN A BOX, never a problem.

Alas the problem is at Simons and not the carriers.

The only way to prove that statement would be to make an order and collect it yourself, but sometimes, with any supplier, it is obvious that the damage was there before it left the warehouse - for an extreme example - large chunks missing but no loose chunks in the packaging.

It's all very interesting though, people experiencing problems around the country, with various suppliers, that I'm not experiencing - there has to be a reason, wonder what it is?

[Teresa]

Dont get me wrong I love Simons, the girls on the phone's are great, Bob my rep is lovely,the price is good, fast delivery,and replacement's always sent out, It's just this last big job ware I needed two long length's and two short, there were more damaged molding's than I've ever had and I couldn't cut around it,it's all been replaced and the job is done, thanks Simons, tell the guy's in the warehouse to be gentle with the strapping.

[stcstc]

i by a decent ammount of mouldings from simons, and must say their prices are good for abunch of stuff

i also by their back 10 which i do like

the only issue for me is they only deliver once a week to ireland, although they tell me they are changing that

[Not your average framer]

I think that a large part of the problem is that the carriers like to use the nylon strapping around the outside of the package as an easy way to handle the bundles.

This puts an enormous pressure onto the mouldings inside the bundle, often with damaging effect upon the mouldings. Unfortunately the nylon strapping does serve a useful protective function and if it was not there other protective measures would be required.

One simple answer would be to continue to use the strapping, but to tape over it so that the carriers cannot use it as a means of handling the bundles. I suspect that this would considerably reduce transit damage.

BTW, has anyone else noticed that these nylon straps never appear to be excessive tight, even when there are strapping marks on the mouldings?

[JamesC]

If you are going to talk about suppliers I think the laws of libel are a good guide i.e. if it's "fair comment" or truthful then fair enough. Constructive feedback should be extremely valuable to suppliers and we all know there are plenty lurking on the forum who will help us out or try to sell us things in equal measure. I think they have to take some rough with the smooth but accept that really this site works best and will be most popular if it is a "framers" forum where people can speak freely - their input is valuable and most are great people but they aren't here for fun.

I do agree the comment about Simons was ill-advised and regrettable. I do know that many people on the forum will say very strong stuff in PMs that they won't in the forum - even the opposite - which is kind of honourable but I think it's a shame too if people can't share their legitimate gripes because often that leads to solutions or can change things for the better. I think the forum has rectified the situation itself because plenty of people have defended Simons and in turn it turns out to be positive publicity for them which will increase their awareness.

Personally I think my Simons rep is about the best I've ever seen and they are a great company in their own funny way (still only sell in feet!!). I happen to use Arqadia more through habit and chance largely and like using the website for orders and dealing in metric - as I think EU law decrees.

On the mouldings, I think as well as the strapping the other problem is very few delivery companies of note will handle large items like mountboard and mouldings at a price you or I can afford to pay in the modern marketplace (and around the North York Moors we aren't on many big companies "van runs"). We have the same people delivering packaging and my framer is convinced that the driver makes sure he jumps on every single box before it arrives (it's an irony that the worst companies at packaging for mail order, are mail order packaging companies in my experience). Also I'm sure every driver is sent on a training course on how to shotput fragile items to the back of the lorry because I've seen them all do it and it just isn't the common sense approach. On day two taught how to pop down rolls of cardboard efficiently into puddles! The other day the thickest black moulding that Arqadia do arrived - one length snapped in the middle!!!! I'm not mentioning names.

I'm thinking about working towards trying to mainly get boxes of moulding direct from Arqadia (safer approach but means holding more stock), and smaller batches from Glasscraft, Hull who don't charge for delivery every thursday and do Arqadia prices. So I lose my Arqadia discount perhaps but get free, safe delivery.

Generally though I have to say couriered stuff is fine and where it is damaged you only lose a few cm so like people say it's barely worth bothering and not sure I'd want to have to indirectly pay for the extra packaging they would need to get it here safe. Provided you claim for under £40 though Arqadia will never question it if you are a good customer - they are excellent like that to me.

[Steve N]

I agree with JameC about the drivers, the one that delivers my Simon orders is the pits, Ive stopped going out to the back of the lorry, he walks over everything and throws parcels about, it make you weep to see it , he took one of my business cards one day, had a call from their office, asking me if I every send goods out, I told them my goods are far to fragile to use them. All my other suppliers use different carriers and their orders get to me in good condition.

[Bagpuss]

I love Simons - they're not just good. they're great, and here's a frame I made up from one of their mouldings as per your request. You can buy the exact same thing with the exact same reference for approx 30% more from A.N. other supplier (not Arqadia) if you like though.

Well said Roboframer, I'm a fan of Simons as well. I am lucky that I get deliveries in their van, Glen is very reliable and takes great care of anything he handles, perhaps problems do occurr when they go out via courier, just unlucky if you get a bad driver I guess. Any problem mouldings I get are rarely questioned and a replacement sent out, the girls in the office are always helpful, I can't fualt them.

I even hear that they have a new website due for release soon, about time

[Not your average framer]

I have been using Simons for ages and will continue to do so. I like their prices and find them very easy to deal with. IMHO, they are a fair and straight forward company to deal with.

My only disappointment is with the phasing out of many of the older style mouldings, but the appears to be general across the industry, rather than just Simons.

I have a reputation for framing old things in mouldings and mounts which look in period and it is getting harder all the time to find things which look perfect for older items.

[DSimons]

Daniel Simons of D & J Simons here. As usual, I read all of your comments with great interest. I honestly believe that we have recently made great strides in our customer service, but as some of the negative comments show, we can never stop trying to improve. Just want to go over some of the points that have been raised. Firstly, the carrier service - in the past we have used a number of freight companies - but our present carrier on the whole has supplied the best service compared to the other carriers that we have used in the past. On the whole their delivery times are efficient, and they are backed up with a new computerised scanning system. In fact they have won 3 years in a row "UK Express Parcel Carrier of the Year". I will accept the comments that we will occassionally find a bad depot or a bad driver however. You should know this if the packaging is torn etc this may be the problem because I can assure you that we certainly do not send out goods in that condition. Please contact us if this happens and we will take immediate action with the carriers to rectify any problem as quickly as possible. Secondly, the same principle applies to damages caused within the warehouse, again I repeat, I feel that we have made good inroads into this area, but of course, we hit the occassional problem which we will always look to put right as quickly as possible. Working in conjustion with our suppliers and the fact that we have appointed a full time Quality Control Manager for a couple of years now inspecting mouldings as they come in from the factories, the result has been that our quality levels have greatly improved.

Please do not hesitate contact me if any of you have any further questions. Thank you for your time.

[Roboframer]

So, how's that for a plus - company head honcho getting stuck in on this forum, how many of his opposite numbers do that?

Yesterday I ordered from Simons and Arqadia at about 11 am - I needed some of the stuff from both by tomorrow and when it's like that I hate to specify 'next day' because the chances are it'll come next day anyway, as long as I order early. But when it matters and I decide to take that gamble, it NEVER happens! It wouldn't really matter with Simons anyway as I'm the driver's last drop - so 'next day' is after 5 p.m. - usually as we're locking up at 5:30 so 'next day' doesn't mean the same unless I want to work late - but that's not D&J Simon's fault.

One day, after locking up, we followed the Tufnells lorry for part of the way home, it was about 5:55 and I'd made a Simons order the day before. The next day he (Tufnells) made it as we were closing and I asked the driver, who we have been on first-name terms with for a long time, "Last night, did you have this package on your lorry"?

"Yes" he said; so I told him, in future, although we close at 5:30, just check if our car is still around the back, because most days we don't actually get away until 5:45 earliest - we have to cash up and stuff.

Received the Simons order at about 5:50, and took in a package for another shop that was closed/gone home. The Arqadia order will arrive late morning no doubt, but sometimes it would have arrived late morning the day after ordering.

I'd cut it fine with one customer order - it happens! It was due today and I'd rang the customer with the usual lame excuses. She said that if it was not done tomorrow, forget it! Everything was done bar the frame. Ripped open the Simons order, turned a long bit of wood in to a square one, blah blah - rang customer at about 6:10 - job done, everyone happy.

I've said it before but one major way to increase profit is to reduce material costs, and, unless you're talking museum glass, etc - the most expensive part of most frames is the moulding itself and if you are doing a fair amount of frames per day and do not have an account with D&J Simons, you are slightly mad!