Two Questions

Lemon_Drop · Post by **Lemon_Drop** » Wed 24 Jan, 2007 7:31 pm

Just a couple of questions I have, the first one is do you sell mounts in your shops and if you do how do you sell them, singles or packs of 5's etc. and how are they displayed to your customers? The second question concerns Ruling Inks, there seems to be alot of brands on the market, do you think some are better than others, or are they all the same only different a different brand name?

Merlin · Post by **Merlin** » Wed 24 Jan, 2007 8:21 pm

We sell mounts as singles in the shop.

Lemon_Drop · Post by **Lemon_Drop** » Thu 25 Jan, 2007 9:05 pm

Thanks John for responding to my post and going to the trouble of answering my question and uploading the photo. My main intention is to use some cut offs to make standard mounts, and was not really sure of the best way to display them. To put them in plastic bags, shrink wrap them or whatever. I like the layout of the shop also. those white art browsers do not distract from the light and airy look of the place. I had some of the pine timber ones which I picked up cheap, but they always looked dated think I will get some of the white ones now that I seen yours. To say I'm a bit disappointed but the response to my post is a understatement. First of all to ask a group of framers If they sell mounts and how are they presented for sale is not that hard a question to answer, One person took the trouble to reply of of over 300 members. and after 100 views. Is not like asking if you sell drugs under the counter to boost your income. The ruling inks was a bit harder to answer.
I worked in a laboratory for 21 years testing products that were exactly the same, made at the same time etc. but wrapped differently and under different brand names, and thought maybe something similar is or could happen with inks. I think LifeSaver has developed software to print direct onto mount board and thats going to get more advanced with the quality of printers that change yearly, so in 5 years time the use of inks and other mount decoration products might be a thing of the past. Thanks again John.

Merlin · Post by **Merlin** » Thu 25 Jan, 2007 9:17 pm

Hey, its no problem, the only embarassing thing is that the shelves look empty...
They are now full. Honestly.

Difficult to make out but the mounts are in the blue boxes next to the ready mades...

We put then in plastic bags and bought a heat sealer from EBay for £26.00 that trims the bags to size.. all neat and tidy.

I cannot remember at the moment where the browsers came from.. if you are interested then I can look at the invoices.

They really do make a big different. We also had the wooden large cross legged ones, that seemed to make the place too cramped. Plus the pushchairs and wheel chairs had a problem getting around them. These new ones have wheels on the bottom.

kev@frames · Post by **kev@frames** » Thu 25 Jan, 2007 9:45 pm

bagged, in singles and in packs of 10. and singles loose and not bagged. If they get grubby we bin them. Also Bags of mixed colours. We sell them in clearface bags, although I think I should have one of those heat sealing machines that John has somewhere around. Well, did have before we moved house. Problem we had was it being left on and then someone would put their hand in it, and the smell of burning plastic, the wailing and tang of burned flesh in the air upset the customers

found that whilst white cream (and lately a few black) are the best sellers, it looks a bit grim and boring, specially when people look in through the windows, so now I try throw in a few bright eye catching coloured mounts, or some coloured offcut board behind. The leary colours dont sell very well at all, but if you have a lot of mounts they break up the sea of off white.

I had a frenzy of mount cutting after christmas to use up all the scrap. Good idea to use it up, as they say in business its not what you sell its what you have left that makes or breaks you!

here, a sea of white, not very exciting is it.....

We pretty much cleared out all our print sales and freed up most of the shop for mounts and ready made frame sales.

I'm also Very much looking forward to the upcoming technology for printed mount design. I did have a bit of sucess with small ones in a vinyl cutting plotter some time ago (one of those Roalnd ones where you can swap out the blade for a plotting pen) . Guess all it needs is a plotting pen attachment for a cmc now and off we go. Like the mysterious vanishing embossing tool from Wizard

But lord knows how some in certain circles (not on this forum, I hasten to add) will frown on that as "not a traditional skill"

Roboframer · Post by **Roboframer** » Thu 25 Jan, 2007 9:48 pm

Don't be too despondant Lemon Drop - replies can take time here, it's only been a day, I've given my framing life story - asked 'how about you' and you could hear a pin drop!

No-one shared their story and that was my first post - thought 'what a boring bunch' but have since learned that that is not the case at all. Plus since then some have shared, just not on that topic. (still waiting Foxyframer!)

Anyway, I saw John's photo and got jealous!

Seriously, yes we sell mounts, standard sizes up to A3 (aperture) all individually cello-wrapped, some plain single, some double, some with fillets, some with artcare bevelled accents, even some with washlines. Some ovals and circles, but not many.

Most are on a spinner, larger ones on a shelf, plus we have a 'bin' full of odd/non-standard sizes that are unwrapped if individual or bagged/cello-wrapped in groups of the same size. these all come from our offcuts bins in the workshop, when we get the time and inclination. In fact most of the standard sizes, up to about 16x12" glass size, come from there, so good profit from a lot of fall-outs.

The next generation will all have foamboard backings hinged to them and will come with an insert with a picture of the shopfront on, with the size and price details super imposed, as per our ready-made frames.

Went through a phase of selling bottom-weighted ready-made mounts, don't try that one, trust me!

Also find that when working from the aperture out, to make a decent looking thing, you could end up with something that does not fit a standard frame - eg 10x8" with 2 1/2" around = 15x13" - so, what do you do, just make it a one inch margin so it fits a 12 x 10" and looks like puke? or maybe a 14 x 11" with 2 on two sides and 1 1/2 on the other two - still puke!!!

No - you make your own 15x13" ready made frames to fit your mounts!
They won't get them in Ikea!!!

As for inks for ruling, I rarely use them, bar a couple of pearlescents from Lion, made by Pelican, or Plaka - starts witha 'P' anyway. I prefer watercolour for washes and lines and acrylic for light colours on dark mounts. For gold/silver I usually draw a line of acrylic gloss medium and adhere gold/silver foil to it, or even real gold/white gold transfer leaf.

Merlin · Post by **Merlin** » Thu 25 Jan, 2007 9:50 pm

Talking of which, Valiani are bringing out a new head this year..

One which includes a 90 degree cut and an embossing tool.
Maybe next...... a pen holder..

kev@frames · Post by **kev@frames** » Thu 25 Jan, 2007 9:50 pm

all right Robo, I give in I'll share my story on that post, you have guilted me out

I'd give my right arm for a 90 degree cut. I had a customer (online) ordered 100 mounts then returned the lot. she thought they were all cut from offcuts due to the bevelled cut

Like as if I'd have 100 pieces of 20.25 x 11.75 inch lime green offcuts lying about that would just happen to fit...!

Merlin · Post by **Merlin** » Thu 25 Jan, 2007 9:57 pm

We went through the procedure of an internal picture with the price included then wrapped in poly bag..

The problem came when we decided to re-price... all had to undone and reprinted.... etc.

so now there is a price label above each mount box.. only one label needed then...

we go from 5x4 inch up to 20 x 16 inch glass size for mounts and a variety of size borders.. Mainly white/cream but as Kev says they look rather boring, so have to intersperse with bright colours....

Roboframer · Post by **Roboframer** » Thu 25 Jan, 2007 9:59 pm

kev@frames wrote: Like as if I'd have 100 pieces of 20.25 x 11.75 inch lime green offcuts lying about that would just happen to fit...!

This abbreviation does not happen here often enough but

ROFLMAO!!!!

Not your average framer · Thu 25 Jan, 2007 10:04 pm

kev@frames wrote: But lord knows how some in certain circles (not on this forum, I hasten to add) will frown on that as "not a traditional skill"

It's horses for courses - I have some local Dartmoor prints which I sell to the "Grockles" otherwise known as tourists or "emmits" if you come from Cornwall. Well, I had some decorated mount face papers printed by a local printing company which I dry mount onto mountboard scraps for use with these prints.

They only sell for £7.50 each, but tick over nicely during the holiday period. They are printed on "Oyster wove" paper with 2 sepia lines and a sepia half tone washline panel. Printers will do this sort of thing quite cheaply if you can do your own camera ready artwork. My artwork was done using Microsoft Excel - it's quite easy to do!

markw · Post by **markw** » Fri 26 Jan, 2007 12:17 am

lemon drop - you posted Wednesday evening - weve all been cutting mounts and selecting washline inks - trying hard to make our shop front look as good as merlin's etc. etc - getting bolshy because few have posted isnt going to persuade many to join in. i very often sit down at my pc during the day - check the forum - see a question and think that i will look at that later - if you get an answer in the day it means that i have nothing to do - unless its a couple of lines.
It also pays to ask single questions - you can make it two posts - but its easier to answer one question and the thread runs more logically - put two questions and it can become confused.
if you search you will find lots of posts about washlines on the forum. your specific question - what's the best brand, In my experience good quality tube watercolours give the most versatile and most traditional finish. most of the branded products are watered down acrylic - if you like the finish that watered down acrylics give you - then buy a tube of acrylic paint and thin it down - its much cheaper and you have more control over the density and flow.

Lemon_Drop · Post by **Lemon_Drop** » Sat 27 Jan, 2007 12:57 am

Yes your right Markw. I should have just asked one question, two is a bit confusing, I tend to be in a confused state most of the time. I think mosts posts tend to drift all over the place really, this one went all over the place from embossing tools for CMC's to Roboframers life story. Which I dont think its a bad thing, you tend to get more information when things like that happens. I dont know what happened to the Wizard's head, and the Valiani one in not there either it seems like Gunnar are the only ones that have one at the moment, I might be wrong. I have a Gunnar, but I dont really know if the embossing tool is worth getting I thing Sarah or someone is coming over this year so I will ask them to bring some samples, If you are going to the NEC its no harm to have a look at what the tool can do and like John said maybe the pen attachment might be next. The photos that were posted really answer alot, plus the tip or just pricing the box instead of each single mount and also to not bother with the weighted mounts. The idea of printing direct onto mounts is something that going to happen also. one version of the software is on the market at the moment, but i dont think the printers are up to scratch, of if they are, the costs are two high at the moment. Everything changes with time, 10 years ago not many people had mobile phones, now they are all over the place, bar coding software that tells underpinners what profile the moulding is, and where to stack the wedges is with us at the moment, but only on the high production hardware, this will filter down to all underpinners in a few years, like whats happened with computer hardware. It would be interesting in 10 years time if we are all alive and I hope we all are to look back at the post here, and wonder what on Gods earth were we talking about. Talking about dragging posts all over the place, if John was giving gold medals for doing it. I would easily win

Thanks to everyone that answered or posted photos. I posted a few questions here over the years, or maybe answered other posts, but this one I got more advice than all the others combined.

Roboframer · Post by **Roboframer** » Sat 27 Jan, 2007 1:20 am

Lemondrop, to add to that advice, albeit on a tangent, your posts are really hard to read at least to me because they are in one big block with no paragraphs when I see a big block of text like this I tend to say sod it or just speed read it to get the gist or maybe read it a bit at a time between meals and stuff. Otherwise I may have answered your question much sooner. There were two questions requiring two totally different searches in the hardware that exists between my ears and it may have been logical to separate those two questions with a paragraph so that I could stop thinking about how I sell and display mounts and start thinking about what inks I use, how they behave what they are called etc etc.

Is this better .....

Lemondrop,

To add to that advice, albeit on a tangent.....

Your posts are really hard to read, at least to me, because they are in one big block with no paragraphs.

When I see a big block of text like this, I tend to say 'sod it' or just speed read it to get the gist, or maybe read it a bit at a time, between meals and stuff.

Otherwise I may have answered your question much sooner. There were two questions requiring two totally different searches in the hardware that exists between my ears, and it may have been logical to separate those two questions with a paragraph, so that I could stop thinking about how I display mounts and start thinking about what inks I use; how they behave; what they are called etc etc.