very heavy frame

[bonbon]

HI
I'm framing a very heavy bronze horse relief, just over A1 size portrait.
I'm going to mount on to plywood ( the bronze has two fixing bolts ) with a red velvet backing (supplied by the customer )
Question; what's the best way to frame, and what's the best means of holding it on the wall??

any help would be appreciated esp. hanging regards Brian

[Graysalchemy]

How heavy is it? Sounds like it will be very heavy. In which case what ever you do you will need to corner brace the frame with steel L brackets for a start. I wouldn't use glass if it has to be glassed use acrylic.

As regard to fixing it will have to be screwed to the wall. Two batons which interlock one on the wall and one on the back of the frame, so the one on the picture hooks over the the baton on the wall. The batons are cut from a piece of 3" x 1" cut down the length at an angle of 45degrees.

Sorry it is a bit vague but I haven't got a drawing of the design, (and sorry I haven't got the time to draw and post one).

You will also need to make sure that the batten is suitable fastened to the wall. I would leave this to the client to avoid problems with liability you will probably find your liability insurance will not cover you for hanging pictures of your own premises.

Failing any of the above give the job back as It will probably turn out to be more of a PITA than it is worth.

Cheers

AG

[easypopsgcf]

I'd use the brackets that kitchen wall units are hung, with three on the wall (2sides and bottom) and 3 on the frame (upside down).......that'll hold no worries

The metal part in this pic
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/91611/Kit ... cket-plate

[prospero]

I've used the batten method on big mirrors and it gives a very stable fixing.

Rather than cutting the battens with a 45deg edge, I leave them square and put mirror plates on the wall batten - slightly bent forward. This allows you to drop the frame batten in place and it can't move back/forth. I find 1/2" thick timber is ideal. If you fix a batten along the top rail of the frame, So it covers the corner and extends about 1" over the inner edge of the frame, this will strengthen the corner so you don't need L plates. The gap created between the frame backing and the batten allows a space for the mirror plates to go into. In fact if you screw to triangles of the same timber to the bottom corner, it will add strength to them as well as making sure the frame sits parallel to the wall. Important on mirrors.

A good way of making sure the frame is level is to use hammer fixings. These are basically a plastic rawlplug with the screw already loaded. With the right size drill, make a hole in the centre of the wall batten. Then drill into the wall and bang in the first hammer fixing. You can then level the batten. Once it's level, use the same masonary bit to drill a hole either side of the first one - Though the batten and right into the wall (make sure the batten doesn't move off-level in the process). Bang in fixings. Then the frame will just drop in place. The mirror plates will hook under the frame batten and no way will it shift. The weight is nicely distributed. On mega-huge frames use more fixings and heavier battens.

btw. Make sure the wall is sound. The fixings need to bite into a solid brick. On cavity walls you can use expanding bolts, but I would use more.

There are things called "Z-Bars" which are extruded aluminium sections and do more-or-less the same thing. But they are hard to find outside the US and you can't really use the good old hammer fixings so levelling is more of a PITA.

Hope that all makes some sort of sense. Like most simple things, it's very hard to explain in words. I have a bathroom mirror to install when I get around to it, so when I do I'll post some pics.

[JFeig]

These are similar to "Z Bars"

http://www.screwmaster.co.uk/pair-of-he ... s-84-p.asp

http://comptools.co.uk/product_info.php ... ts_id=7627

[Nigel Nobody]

In which case what ever you do you will need to corner brace the frame with steel L brackets for a start.

The piece is going to be bolted to plywood, so the joints in the frame aren't taking the weight, so I see no necessity for metal brackets at all. In fact the rigidity of metal brackets that aren't exactly the same shape as the back of the joint, can often weaken a joint by breaking the integrity of the glue. One way to reduce this risk is to apply a two pack adhesive to the bracket, put it in place without screws, then when the glue hardens, add the screws.

To hang this piece I agree with the others who recommended Z bars or cleats. I sell the Hangman brand and installed a large picture a couple of days ago using a 30" set.

[prospero]

Good point Ormond about the L-Plates. I always give them a wack on the corner with a ball-headed hammer to give them a slight bias so that when the screws are tightened they tend to pull the faces of the joint togther.

[Nigel Nobody]

I've done that too, Prospero, but had an experience once where it cracked the glue open at the back, so on the rare occasions I use L brackets, I use the two pack epoxy glue method.
Mind you the last time was about 8 years ago. I tend too use mouldings that are in proportion to the size of the frame so that the possibility of the joints coming apart is minimised. If a customer wants a piddling 20mm moulding on a picture that is large as a full matboard sheet, I talk them out of it, by explaining that the Sydney harbour bridge isn't made out of paddle pop sticks because they aren't strong enough!

[prospero]

Quite right Ormond. I should mention that I always screw the L plates on before the glue has set. Maybe I'm overdoing it, but you can't beat a touch of over-engineering now and then.

I tend to us them more on big hefty frames rather than thin ones. On some frames, the sheer bulk of them can strain the corners when moving them about. So a little extra reinforcement doesn't go amiss. One particular one I made a couple of years ago had 3 L plates in each corner and an internal L in the rebate. And another on the liner. That baby ain't going to fall apart nohow.

[Nigel Nobody]

Isn't it a shame we can't get 'wood' welding rods. The we could make the suckers stay together!

It is always wise to make sure the joints in any frame are strong. If the surfaces are glued together tightly while the glue is wet, you have a good chance of getting a strong joint. Sometimes wood can warp after the frame is made, so backing up with L plates can be a good idea in some circumstances. I should take my own advice!

[Graysalchemy]

You could also glue and Biscuit joint and then underpin, I have done this before and it worked very well.

[Abacus]

The 45 degree baton method is also known as a "French cleat"

An extra baton at the bottom (just fixed to the frame) will make the mirror hang straight

[bonbon]

Thanks for all the advice, I have used the 45 degree cut method, as my friendly woodworking shop made me a set. The plywood backing was faced with a layer of wadding then red velvet (supplied by the customer),then bolted the bronze horse to the plywood, I ended up screwing the moulding to the plywood for added strength, the moulding was also glued and pined.

The point, "was it worth the effort"... well I did it because the client has been a good customer in the past, other wise it may well have been a no, as its taken sometime and I have just about avoided the hernia , Its a pity I don't have scales to measure the weight of this beast but it must be in the region of 5/6 stone at very least....

thank you all again for your replies Brian